Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

[Mogster]

Ilmor? They already make GM badged (Chevy) V6T for Indycar. Ilmor worked with Renault 2015-2017 time, after that they publicly stated they were interested in returning to F1 with a suitable partner.

Use Renault customer units for a couple of years to get on your feet, in the meantime bung Ilmor cash to start/accelerate development of an in house unit. If after 3-5 years the project isn’t a total ----show then move to Ilmor Caddy badged in house units. Saves money early on, gives Ilmor time to get up and running, leaves GM able to exit without spending eye watering levels of of cash if the Andrettis can’t run the team to GMs satisfaction.

[AR3-GP]

Again not sure why anyone thinks its Honda. Honda already wanted more of a role in RB. Why would they take a backseat in a Cadillac Andretti partnership where there is the potential for GM to give Honda the boot when GM feels like making their own PU.

the third link says it's Alpine. This has been spoken about for over a year now. The first two links are speculation pieces.

[FW17]

Ilmor? They already make GM badged (Chevy) V6T for Indycar. Ilmor worked with Renault 2015-2017 time, after that they publicly stated they were interested in returning to F1 with a suitable partner.

Use Renault customer units for a couple of years to get on your feet, in the meantime bung Ilmor cash to start/accelerate development of an in house unit. If after 3-5 years the project isn’t a total ----show then move to Ilmor Caddy badged in house units. Saves money early on, gives Ilmor time to get up and running, leaves GM able to exit without spending eye watering levels of of cash if the Andrettis can’t run the team to GMs satisfaction.

If Ilmor gets involved that means Penske gets involved in the project too.

[Sevach]

I didn't say their cars were slow, just that they are not associated with speed. They are a luxury car brand with a history of being slow and I think that is the way most in the world see them. If they are putting Cadillac into F1 it is probably because they want to change that in the global market and push the brand.

Cadillac releasing performance cars is not going to change anyone's perception of them unless it is advertised as marketed as such which so far in many markets it hasn't had much of a marketing budget.

https://carsalesbase.com/europe-cadillac/

Cadillacs sales in Europe are paltry. They obviously want to change that.

Mercedes used to be the "old man" brand, now they seem to have a solid foothold in the racing enthusiast heart.
Doesn't always work, Renault's perception hasn't changed much no matter how long and how many winning engines they made.
I think the change to Alpine signals that they gave up on making the Renault brand "cool".

Cadillac, Audi are all trying to do what Mercedes did.

Again not sure why anyone thinks its Honda. Honda already wanted more of a role in RB. Why would they take a backseat in a Cadillac Andretti partnership where there is the potential for GM to give Honda the boot when GM feels like making their own PU.

the third link says it's Alpine. This has been spoken about for over a year now. The first two links are speculation pieces.

Honda seems to follow very strict rules regarding their commitment, they don't like to be "halfway in", they either commit to a project or leave it.

That makes them a tough partner for GM, who will want the engines but no official partnership and branding on their Cadillac's (a "Cadillac" full of Honda branding and logos would confuse, and perhaps dissapoint, the average person).

[NL_Fer]

The team-up with Honda was suggested because GM already has a technical partnership for their future EV’s, sharing the same platform and batteries. Also Honda has and engine facilty and wants to return. Just wonder how such will sound. Cadillac Andretti Honda sounds kinda weird, not like Alfa Romeo Ferrari, which have a longs shared history together.

[DDopey]

I do see some issues with the qualifying format on some circuits with more cars.

[AMG.Tzan]

Ilmor? They already make GM badged (Chevy) V6T for Indycar. Ilmor worked with Renault 2015-2017 time, after that they publicly stated they were interested in returning to F1 with a suitable partner.

Use Renault customer units for a couple of years to get on your feet, in the meantime bung Ilmor cash to start/accelerate development of an in house unit. If after 3-5 years the project isn’t a total ----show then move to Ilmor Caddy badged in house units. Saves money early on, gives Ilmor time to get up and running, leaves GM able to exit without spending eye watering levels of of cash if the Andrettis can’t run the team to GMs satisfaction.

If Ilmor gets involved that means Penske gets involved in the project too.

Can’t understand why Penske isn’t the one trying to enter Formula 1 with Porsche maybe like with their LMDh!

I think Penske is even bigger than Andretti as a team so it seems a bit odd they have never tried being the first big American team entering F1!

[mwillems]

Ilmor? They already make GM badged (Chevy) V6T for Indycar. Ilmor worked with Renault 2015-2017 time, after that they publicly stated they were interested in returning to F1 with a suitable partner.

Use Renault customer units for a couple of years to get on your feet, in the meantime bung Ilmor cash to start/accelerate development of an in house unit. If after 3-5 years the project isn’t a total ----show then move to Ilmor Caddy badged in house units. Saves money early on, gives Ilmor time to get up and running, leaves GM able to exit without spending eye watering levels of of cash if the Andrettis can’t run the team to GMs satisfaction.

If Ilmor gets involved that means Penske gets involved in the project too.

Can’t understand why Penske isn’t the one trying to enter Formula 1 with Porsche maybe like with their LMDh!

I think Penske is even bigger than Andretti as a team so it seems a bit odd they have never tried being the first big American team entering F1!

To be fair F1 have said that there are other expressions of interest and have cooled the Andretti idea, stating that just because there are quieter conversations it doesn't mean they are less significant. I'm not suggesting Penske is one of them, but who knows who they are (other than Panthera)

It seems from statements made by Andretti that they feel that F1/FIA have been against them a little after previous expressions of interest. With the addition of the giant General motors are making a very public statement: Now tell us we can't add to the grid, pay our way and be around and competitive in the long term.

To be fair I get it, Andretti is a giant name in motorsport, a racing thoroughbred organisation who now have the backing of one of the biggest carmakers in the world. It would be interesting to see on what grounds they are pushed back, if indeed they are.

[mwillems]

I do see some issues with the qualifying format on some circuits with more cars.

We have too many races anyway, can't we just drop tracks like Monaco and Baku

I wish!

[Sevach]

The team-up with Honda was suggested because GM already has a technical partnership for their future EV’s, sharing the same platform and batteries. Also Honda has and engine facilty and wants to return. Just wonder how such will sound. Cadillac Andretti Honda sounds kinda weird, not like Alfa Romeo Ferrari, which have a longs shared history together.

Cadillac would need a partner that just takes the money and accepts no branding.

For example people don't refer to Aston as Aston Martin Mercedes... even though that's the engine powering that car.
Renault was also ok with Red Bull ditching the Renault name for "Tag Heuer".

[AR3-GP]

Honda seems to follow very strict rules regarding their commitment, they don't like to be "halfway in", they either commit to a project or leave it.

That makes them a tough partner for GM, who will want the engines but no official partnership and branding on their Cadillac's (a "Cadillac" full of Honda branding and logos would confuse, and perhaps dissapoint, the average person).

I 100% agree. There would not be any Honda badging on this hypothetical partnership. That's a non-starter for what Honda is looking for in 2026.

Honda want their name in front. GM-Andretti won't have the Honda name anywhere.


On the other hand, Renault was happy to let Red Bull run those magical Tag Heuer engines

[piast9]

I do see some issues with the qualifying format on some circuits with more cars.

They used to do that kind of qualifying format with 24 cars with no issues.

[JordanMugen]

On the other hand, Renault was happy to let Red Bull run those magical Tag Heuer engines

Happy or neither had other options? Red Bull Racing needed an engine, any engine, and Renault would prefer more data than not having more data.

If Cadillac/Ilmor are going to supply a power unit for Andretti in 2026, they really need to start designing it right now!!

The idea of a Cadillac-Renault on the other hand seems bizarre (where the Cadillac bit is actually made by Andretti Global), but stranger things have happened...

[AR3-GP]

On the other hand, Renault was happy to let Red Bull run those magical Tag Heuer engines

Happy or neither had other options? Red Bull Racing needed an engine, any engine, and Renault would prefer more data than not having more data.

If Cadillac/Ilmor are going to supply a power unit for Andretti in 2026, they really need to start designing it right now!!

The idea of a Cadillac-Renault on the other hand seems bizarre (where the Cadillac bit is actually made by Andretti Global), but stranger things have happened...

Well, Red Bull was going to use the Renault that year, regardless of whether Renault permitted them to use the Tag Heuer name or not soo... It was a zero sum game. They had been denied by Ferrari and Mercedes. The rules say that Renault must supply that engine.

Cadillac Renault makes sense because they are for the most part, not competitors in any segments/markets. The engine would not be branded Renault. It would be a naming rights for something else.

also, Cadilla and Renault is not bizarre at all. I'll leave you with this note to ponder:

Cadillac was named after Antoine de la Mothe Cadillac, a French adventurer who founded Detroit, Michigan

Cadillac is a common french surname.

What would be bizzare, is having GM and Honda arch-rivals for over a decade in Indycar, to suddenly share an F1 program. That's just not going to happen. Once can see the conflict of interest from a mile away.

[MIKEY_!]

What would be bizzare, is having GM and Honda arch-rivals for over a decade in Indycar, to suddenly share an F1 program. That's just not going to happen. Once can see the conflict of interest from a mile away.

Honda and GM are already collaborating on EV powertrains and mid-size SUV platforms. Given their level of collaboration on road car engineering, it's not that far fetched they'd collaborate on an F1 PU. And Reuss specifically said their Indycar rivalry wasn't a barrier to working together in F1.

Michael also said "It'll be more of a collaboration with another manufacturer". True collaboration with Renault just isn't going to happen, Renault will build their PU however Renault wants and Andretti won't have any real influence. But collaboration is possible with Honda, especially if Andretti is the only team using the Honda PU.

Honda would benefit from working with GM. Honda would get to do the R&D while getting GM to pay for some/most of it. Having someone else's sticker on the car is lower risk for Honda. And it's a lower-cost (board-friendly) way to get on the grid if the current alternative is the super expensive option of buying another team.

I still think Renault power is more likely than Honda power (hell, I think customer Red Bull power is more likely too), but it's far from impossible. It's even more likely if Honda already plans to be on the grid with another team in 2026 as well. That's still a big "if" though.