Mercedes W14

[Andi76]

The comparison is very accurate. The pics were taken by the same photographer in the same place and in a short amount of time. And obviously the camera angle is near perfect and 100 times bette than the pics you re using.
+ with the fuel tank shape Mercedes has, you cannot technically place the cockpit far rearwards, unless you add 50cm to the car's length or width.

This information is from F1s own website and Marc Hughes :

https://postimages.org/

I checked this to make sure I wasn't mistaken, although I was sure because it was said so many times. The driver's position and sidepods were further back on the Mercedes than on Ferrari and Red Bull. The engine was moved further back especially for this. As I said - was explained 2022 umpteen times by all experts whether Hughes, Piola and how they are called all. And I believe that they know a little more precisely, after all, they are standing next to the cars.

Not only it's Mark Hughes (who has very little credibility), you are also showing me that completely nonsenical comparison using the totally fake and wrong 3d render that Mercedes published in 2022... and this should be more accurate than my comparison?

The accurate photos and Technic speak for themselves.

Well, if you claim that you are more credible than people like Girgio Piola, Marc Hughes or Craig Scarborough and pretty much every other F1 expert of rank, who see and compare things on the spot and not only on photos then that alone is a statement that speaks for itself. And everyone can now make up their own mind about it and you.

[Blackout]

This information is from F1s own website and Marc Hughes :

https://postimages.org/

I checked this to make sure I wasn't mistaken, although I was sure because it was said so many times. The driver's position and sidepods were further back on the Mercedes than on Ferrari and Red Bull. The engine was moved further back especially for this. As I said - was explained 2022 umpteen times by all experts whether Hughes, Piola and how they are called all. And I believe that they know a little more precisely, after all, they are standing next to the cars.

Not only it's Mark Hughes (who has very little credibility), you are also showing me that completely nonsenical comparison using the totally fake and wrong 3d render that Mercedes published in 2022... and this should be more accurate than my comparison?

The accurate photos and Technic speak for themselves.

Well, if you claim that you are more credible than people like Girgio Piola, Marc Hughes or Craig Scarborough and pretty much every other F1 expert of rank, who see and compare things on the spot and not only on photos then that alone is a statement that speaks for itself. And everyone can now make up their own mind about it and you.

Hughes? Yes me and many people are more credible.
And IF Piola or Scarbs said that (that the Merc cockpit is even more rearward than RB), then they are obviously mistaken.
And the pic I posted is obviously accurate and speaks for itself.

*even talented people and engineers who know what they are talking about can do mistakes. "F1 data analysis" for example wrote, based on this pic that the Merc nose looks shorter...

[Andi76]

Not only it's Mark Hughes (who has very little credibility), you are also showing me that completely nonsenical comparison using the totally fake and wrong 3d render that Mercedes published in 2022... and this should be more accurate than my comparison?

The accurate photos and Technic speak for themselves.

Well, if you claim that you are more credible than people like Girgio Piola, Marc Hughes or Craig Scarborough and pretty much every other F1 expert of rank, who see and compare things on the spot and not only on photos then that alone is a statement that speaks for itself. And everyone can now make up their own mind about it and you.

Hughes? Yes me and many people are more credible.
And IF Piola or Scarbs said that (that the Merc cockpit is even more rearward than RB), then they are obviously mistaken.
And the pic I posted is obviously accurate and speaks for itself.

*even talented people and engineers who know what they are talking about can do mistakes. "F1 data analysis" for example wrote, based on this pic that the Merc nose looks shorter...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpACOl-X0AA ... =4096x4096

And what makes you so credible? Do you have such good contacts with people from F1? And do you constantly see the cars with your own eyes?

[AR3-GP]

This information is from F1s own website and Marc Hughes :

https://postimages.org/

I checked this to make sure I wasn't mistaken, although I was sure because it was said so many times. The driver's position and sidepods were further back on the Mercedes than on Ferrari and Red Bull. The engine was moved further back especially for this. As I said - was explained 2022 umpteen times by all experts whether Hughes, Piola and how they are called all. And I believe that they know a little more precisely, after all, they are standing next to the cars.

Not only it's Mark Hughes (who has very little credibility), you are also showing me that completely nonsenical comparison using the totally fake and wrong 3d render that Mercedes published in 2022... and this should be more accurate than my comparison?

The accurate photos and Technic speak for themselves.

Well, if you claim that you are more credible than people like Girgio Piola, Marc Hughes or Craig Scarborough and pretty much every other F1 expert of rank, who see and compare things on the spot and not only on photos then that alone is a statement that speaks for itself. And everyone can now make up their own mind about it and you.

It would be quite difficult to compare the lengths of different cars "on the spot". Photos would be more technical.

[Goblin42]

https://ibb.co/t2FP8DZ

https://ibb.co/t2FP8DZ - Viewing full size makes it evident.

Not sure if that shows the stays a bit better? I did view it on my phone and can hardly tell, but on laptop it was clear.

I don't think that these are stays, usually the radiators are seperated into segements and in the case of the W14 they were moved waay back
for example here's the same design in the first spec of the W13 during the barcelona preseason test last year

[Goblin42]

on that note here's the radiator design for the W13, they got embeded inside the fuel cell
i'm really curious on how they moved them backwards in the W14

[chrisc90]

I looked at your 2 photos and thought it could be the vent opening above the side impact structure, however its at the wrong angle.

I think you can just say see the vent in the W13 pic next to the 'stay' where the contrast changes, but looking at the 2nd pic with the radiator fitted, it appears the radiator sits at a different angle to even the 'stay' in the photo's. (id presume the radiator is mounted in-line with the car, rather than sideways as that wouldnt have worked with the W13 'zeropod' concept.

[AR3-GP]

This information is from F1s own website and Marc Hughes :

https://postimages.org/

I checked this to make sure I wasn't mistaken, although I was sure because it was said so many times. The driver's position and sidepods were further back on the Mercedes than on Ferrari and Red Bull. The engine was moved further back especially for this. As I said - was explained 2022 umpteen times by all experts whether Hughes, Piola and how they are called all. And I believe that they know a little more precisely, after all, they are standing next to the cars.

Not only it's Mark Hughes (who has very little credibility), you are also showing me that completely nonsenical comparison using the totally fake and wrong 3d render that Mercedes published in 2022... and this should be more accurate than my comparison?

The accurate photos and Technic speak for themselves.

Well, if you claim that you are more credible than people like Girgio Piola, Marc Hughes or Craig Scarborough and pretty much every other F1 expert of rank, who see and compare things on the spot and not only on photos then that alone is a statement that speaks for itself. And everyone can now make up their own mind about it and you.

Also I think you are getting carried away. The subject was simply comparing the W13 to the W14. OP never claimed to be superior to "every other F1 expert of rank". That was your own invention. Questioning the technical abilities of people like Scarbs and Hughes is not out of the question as they have made preposterous claims in the past including looking at pictures and deciding the Ferrari won't be quick...

Perhaps we can return to the topic without making things personal?

[Andi76]

Not only it's Mark Hughes (who has very little credibility), you are also showing me that completely nonsenical comparison using the totally fake and wrong 3d render that Mercedes published in 2022... and this should be more accurate than my comparison?

The accurate photos and Technic speak for themselves.

Well, if you claim that you are more credible than people like Girgio Piola, Marc Hughes or Craig Scarborough and pretty much every other F1 expert of rank, who see and compare things on the spot and not only on photos then that alone is a statement that speaks for itself. And everyone can now make up their own mind about it and you.

It would be quite difficult to compare the lengths of different cars "on the spot". Photos would be more technical.

On site you have completely different possibilities, believe me. Therefore, it would be more than ridiculous to claim that you know more than people who are on site and talk to engineers and technicians every day. Here you learn things that the normal F1 never gets to hear and has no idea about it. But anyway, moreover there are pictures of the cars taken from exactly the same place, the same angle, etc., which all confirm exactly what all the experts have just said. But frankly speaking - after these statements you know where this leads. Everyone should make up his own mind about this comment.

Not only it's Mark Hughes (who has very little credibility), you are also showing me that completely nonsenical comparison using the totally fake and wrong 3d render that Mercedes published in 2022... and this should be more accurate than my comparison?

The accurate photos and Technic speak for themselves.

Well, if you claim that you are more credible than people like Girgio Piola, Marc Hughes or Craig Scarborough and pretty much every other F1 expert of rank, who see and compare things on the spot and not only on photos then that alone is a statement that speaks for itself. And everyone can now make up their own mind about it and you.

Also I think you are getting carried away. The subject was simply comparing the W13 to the W14. OP never claimed to be superior to "every other F1 expert of rank". That was your own invention. Questioning the technical abilities of people like Scarbs and Hughes is not out of the question as they have made preposterous claims in the past including looking at pictures and deciding the Ferrari won't be quick...

Perhaps we can return to the topic without making things personal?

Of course, they can also make mistakes. We all make them. And they, too, are sometimes biased. So you have to be careful there, too. But that was a completely different matter. In the end, this childish and naive reasoning probably got me carried away. And you're right - let's get back to important topics. With the above is also actually said everything about it.

[PlatinumZealot]

on that note here's the radiator design for the W13, they got embeded inside the fuel cell
i'm really curious on how they moved them backwards in the W14

https://f1i.autojournal.fr/wp-content/u ... _w13_9.jpg

https://external-preview.redd.it/-T6ImX ... fc69f934c9

Likely in the same exact position this year.. They have even more space rearwards now too.. So the actual part thats embedded might be the same position.

[AR3-GP]

Lewis and Toto kept saying last season that they know what's wrong and that they cannot fix it on the W13 and that they have to wait. Maybe they were talking about the Monocoque?

[Venturiation]

Lewis and Toto kept saying last season that they know what's wrong and that they cannot fix it on the W13 and that they have to wait. Maybe they were talking about the Monocoque?

they don't know every problem about W13 but the ones they knew were due to a mistake and everything else was built on that mistake
so there is alot to fix

[AR3-GP]

Lewis and Toto kept saying last season that they know what's wrong and that they cannot fix it on the W13 and that they have to wait. Maybe they were talking about the Monocoque?

they don't know every problem about W13 but the ones they knew were due to a mistake and everything else was built on that mistake
so there is alot to fix

True but many changes like a sidepod, front wing, or rear wing, or engine cover are superficial. They can be done with some light bodywork adjustment.

A fundamental change like moving the driver position in order to revise the geometry of the tunnel inlets, is something that you wouldn't be able to tackle within a season.

They may have also been talking about the rear suspension.

[mantikos]

I don't think this comparison is accurate. It a well known fact that Mercedes had the most rearward driver position in 2022.

The comparison is very accurate. The pics were taken by the same photographer in the same place and in a short amount of time. And obviously the camera angle is near perfect and 100 times bette than the pics you re using.
+ with the fuel tank shape Mercedes has, you cannot technically place the cockpit far rearwards, unless you add 50cm to the car's length or width.

This information is from F1s own website and Marc Hughes :

https://postimages.org/

I checked this to make sure I wasn't mistaken, although I was sure because it was said so many times. The driver's position and sidepods were further back on the Mercedes than on Ferrari and Red Bull. The engine was moved further back especially for this. As I said - was explained 2022 umpteen times by all experts whether Hughes, Piola and how they are called all. And I believe that they know a little more precisely, after all, they are standing next to the cars.

Great find Andi, and it also shows how far back and low the Merc sidepods were last year. They are certainly further up this year in both axes.

[Venturiation]

Lewis and Toto kept saying last season that they know what's wrong and that they cannot fix it on the W13 and that they have to wait. Maybe they were talking about the Monocoque?

they don't know every problem about W13 but the ones they knew were due to a mistake and everything else was built on that mistake
so there is alot to fix

True but many changes like a sidepod, front wing, or rear wing are superficial. can be done with some light bodywork adjustment.

A fundamental change like moving the driver position in order to revise the geometry of the tunnel inlets, is something that you wouldn't be able to tackle within a season.

I think that’s why they didn’t change sidepods last year since they think it doesn’t change much but they definitely could have

I know it’s impossible but i would love to see the invisible changes that they are talking about but applied to W13

If the changes they made make the car run as low as they wanted without causing too much porpoising i think the car would be very competitive
But we won’t know if they are still trying the run the car super low or switched to a more stable but less downforce from the floor