Thanks, that explains a lot I thought I knew but I was mistaken (again )
Thanks, that explains a lot I thought I knew but I was mistaken (again )
I don't even think a lower centre of gravity is real either. Look at how high the bodywork is now and I'm willing to bet there are a lot more things that are now higher in the car then they would be if there was an actual sidepod. My understanding is that they are having a significant issue with roll in the W14 because of this higher centre of gravity and this would explain the the rocking seen on the shakedown video at Silverstone. This roll will also create a significant aerodynamic issue as well and maybe even some vibrations which could have caused the gearbox failure for George.
A lot of thread left on the pushrod adjustment. Ready to raise that car! Anyone chasing grams would have shortened that thread if they did not expect they might use it....Morteza wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 02:40https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fpvwl-GXgAA ... name=largeNicolas Carpentiers wrote:Did not notice how much bodywork there was around the front suspension wishbones on the Mercedes W14. Maximum downwash to feed the Venturi inlets.
Only the Mercedes team knows what they saw in the wind tunnel and what kind of phenomena were at play to increase the downforce worth 1.5s per lap on W13. My guess is some powerful interaction of mid wing vortex and rear tyre squirt and overall downwash to rear and beam wings. Clearly they wanted to treat the diffuser in a powerful way.
The Red bull is turning in and the Mercedes is running straight so I'm not sure this is a true comparison. Very interesting image though and speaks a thousand words.BlueCheetah66 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 01:15https://twitter.com/f1motospogp/status/ ... 36545?s=20
Shows an interesting comparison between the W14 and the RB19. Obviously the tyre smoke will not perfect represent the tyre wake but it does show how much better the RB19 is at keeping wake from reaching the beam wing and diffuser
I agree with the last sentence. Let's move on. The rest is for everyone to decide for themselves. Whether he believes the indirect statement of a Mercedes engineer, this technical expert or that or the one or the other comparison in this forum, or completely forms his own judgment.
I was convinced last year the mid wing vortex is handled properly and shouldn't cause any trouble for the team, so I never mentioned it. Not so sure anymore.Andi76 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 09:53But the fact is, and based on first-hand information this time, Mercedes had a crisis meeting yesterday with the drivers and all the key engineers. The W14 is not performing as well as hoped. There seems to be confirmation of rumors that there were about the rear axle. When they lower the car above a certain point the handling deteriorates extremely. Updates to the sidepods are already a done deal, even if they don't matter.... a new rear wing will come as soon as possible, because they have to fight (once again) with too much drag, which they want to counter with a new rear wing. All in all, except for the porpoising, things aren't going much better than 2022 and the W14 apparently poses similar problems as the W13.
You just said what I decided to leave out because I thought it would cause the appropriate reaction. I agree with you completely. I even think it is undeniable. You don't just change the side boxes for visual reasons. Moreover, it also fits together. The slightly larger sidepods have helped a bit with the mid-wing vortex problem you described, but they're obviously still too small to position that vortex properly at low vehicle heights. I think it's starting to be undeniable now that the concept is the problem. Also, this totally fits with what you hear from the aerodynamicists of other teams who have looked at this concept and said that it is far too "complex" aerodynamically to make it work properly.Vanja #66 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 09:59I was convinced last year the mid wing vortex is handled properly and shouldn't cause any trouble for the team, so I never mentioned it. Not so sure anymore.Andi76 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 09:53But the fact is, and based on first-hand information this time, Mercedes had a crisis meeting yesterday with the drivers and all the key engineers. The W14 is not performing as well as hoped. There seems to be confirmation of rumors that there were about the rear axle. When they lower the car above a certain point the handling deteriorates extremely. Updates to the sidepods are already a done deal, even if they don't matter.... a new rear wing will come as soon as possible, because they have to fight (once again) with too much drag, which they want to counter with a new rear wing. All in all, except for the porpoising, things aren't going much better than 2022 and the W14 apparently poses similar problems as the W13.
In any case, it's clear their sidepod concept is in fact the problem, not only for floor structural instability (that seems to have been solved with wider sides) but also for actual aerodynamic instability and unpredictable interaction with other elements. I was convinced they were very thorough about it last season...
The RB turning in makes it even more impressive !Unc1eM0nty wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 09:44The Red bull is turning in and the Mercedes is running straight so I'm not sure this is a true comparison. Very interesting image though and speaks a thousand words.BlueCheetah66 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 01:15https://twitter.com/f1motospogp/status/ ... 36545?s=20
Shows an interesting comparison between the W14 and the RB19. Obviously the tyre smoke will not perfect represent the tyre wake but it does show how much better the RB19 is at keeping wake from reaching the beam wing and diffuser
The Red Bull front wheels are at an angle though, Mercedes are straight, so the wake comming off each will be completely different.AA_2019 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 11:16The RB turning in makes it even more impressive !Unc1eM0nty wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 09:44The Red bull is turning in and the Mercedes is running straight so I'm not sure this is a true comparison. Very interesting image though and speaks a thousand words.BlueCheetah66 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2023, 01:15https://twitter.com/f1motospogp/status/ ... 36545?s=20
Shows an interesting comparison between the W14 and the RB19. Obviously the tyre smoke will not perfect represent the tyre wake but it does show how much better the RB19 is at keeping wake from reaching the beam wing and diffuser
By turning in you would expect more of the tyre smoke to move towards the beam wing & diffuser area !
Also note the impact of rear tyre drag.
It shows how much worse the w14 concept is at front tyre wake management and drag on the rear tyre.
Maybe they need the stiffness, to be within legal limits of oscillation. So it might not be trivial, or possible at all.