2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[FDD]

Things you love to see - same people saying Merc sidepods aren't the cause of any problems now saying every car with non-RB-like sidepods is doomed... So, what is it?

PS Neither

Absolutely right! I have not pronounced it, but you have! It's funny to watch this now! However, they have the same stubbornness as they had with the Mercedes side boxes. At least there they don't turn like a flag in the wind.

In addition, now the trick for Low Tyre Deg is the underbody

Now that you say it it’s true that Ferrari and Haas have high tyre deg and Alfa romeo doesn’t

It confirms Ferrari sideopods are very limited and a failure after 2022

But also Alfa has different rear suspension!!!

[Xyz22]

Absolutely right! I have not pronounced it, but you have! It's funny to watch this now! However, they have the same stubbornness as they had with the Mercedes side boxes. At least there they don't turn like a flag in the wind.

In addition, now the trick for Low Tyre Deg is the underbody

Now that you say it it’s true that Ferrari and Haas have high tyre deg and Alfa romeo doesn’t

It confirms Ferrari sideopods are very limited and a failure after 2022

But also Alfa has different rear suspension!!!

The F1 75 didn't have any specific issues regarding tyre deg (the only time that the car didn't work properly was Suzuka in mixed conditions. In that case something clearly went wrong as the deg on Lec tyres was insane). When they struggled for tyre wear the RB18 was simply too quick and in order to keep up they used the tyres more.

This happened to RB as well, specifically in Austria and Melbourne.

[AR3-GP]

Now that you say it it’s true that Ferrari and Haas have high tyre deg and Alfa romeo doesn’t

It confirms Ferrari sideopods are very limited and a failure after 2022

But also Alfa has different rear suspension!!!

The F1 75 didn't have any specific issues regarding tyre deg. When they struggled for tyre wear the RB18 was simply too quick and in order to keep up they used the tyres more.

This happened to RB as well, specifically in Austria and Melbourne.

Graining in Miami race and Imola sprint were the only issues before the political directive.

[Xyz22]

But also Alfa has different rear suspension!!!

The F1 75 didn't have any specific issues regarding tyre deg. When they struggled for tyre wear the RB18 was simply too quick and in order to keep up they used the tyres more.

This happened to RB as well, specifically in Austria and Melbourne.

Graining in Miami race and Imola sprint.

Because they were simply slower than RB, just like RB was way slower in Austria and Melbourne. Maybe they didn't get the right setup in those occasions.

Remember that Lec was forced to push immediately to stay out of DRS in order to keep position. RB has a massive advantage in straight line speed so there was no margin for manage the pace and the tyres. It's all relative.

[AR3-GP]

The F1 75 didn't have any specific issues regarding tyre deg. When they struggled for tyre wear the RB18 was simply too quick and in order to keep up they used the tyres more.

This happened to RB as well, specifically in Austria and Melbourne.

Graining in Miami race and Imola sprint.

Because they were simply slower than RB, just like RB was way slower in Austria and Melbourne. Maybe they didn't get the right setup in those occasions.

Leclerc's pace was good in Miami, and he recovered it after the graining cleared.

As for Imola? It was reported at the time that the cool temperatures shifted the track towards Red Bull in addition to bad porpoising into tamburello. Leclerc still led most of the sprint race but yeah, RB was just faster there given Leclerc was unable to beat Perez.

[Xyz22]

Graining in Miami race and Imola sprint.

Because they were simply slower than RB, just like RB was way slower in Austria and Melbourne. Maybe they didn't get the right setup in those occasions.

Leclerc's pace was good in Miami, and he recovered it after the graining cleared.

As for Imola? It was reported at the time that the cool temperatures shifted the track towards Red Bull. Leclerc still led most of the sprint race but yeah, RB was just faster there given Leclerc was unable to beat Perez.

Lec pace was good in the second stint, where he was able to put a bit of pressure on Max, even though he was clearly in overdrive.

Max had the pace to be on pole in Miami. The RB was a bit ahead especially considering the big advantage in straight line speed. Leclerc was always on the limit and you pay the price if the competition can keep up while managing.

[Venturiation]

But also Alfa has different rear suspension!!!

The F1 75 didn't have any specific issues regarding tyre deg. When they struggled for tyre wear the RB18 was simply too quick and in order to keep up they used the tyres more.

This happened to RB as well, specifically in Austria and Melbourne.

Graining in Miami race and Imola sprint were the only issues before the political directive.

There were alot of insiders like duchessa that said the TD ruined the F1-75 and development for the SF23 and said Ferrari was still looking for a solution
Since then the Ferrari was never the same

Did they rely on the plank too much and built the concept around it?
If it’s the suspension they need to change like Alfa Romeo nut that’s hard to do now , should have done it during winter

Both haas and Ferrari have the same suspension and suffering same deg

[Venturiation]

Ferrari looked better than what it was last year just because Redbull had all the DNFs at the start of the season

And Redbull was still always close if not in front at every race

Ferrari this year already on the 10th lap there was a 10 seconds gap

No upgrade can fix that unless you can bring 1 second and magic tyre deg quickly

[Andi76]

Things you love to see - same people saying Merc sidepods aren't the cause of any problems now saying every car with non-RB-like sidepods is doomed... So, what is it?

PS Neither

Absolutely right! I have not pronounced it, but you have! It's funny to watch this now! However, they have the same stubbornness as they had with the Mercedes side boxes. At least there they don't turn like a flag in the wind.

In addition, now the trick for Low Tyre Deg is the underbody

Now that you say it it’s true that Ferrari and Haas have high tyre deg and Alfa romeo doesn’t

It confirms Ferrari sideopods are very limited and a failure after 2022

Or it’s the suspension

And Williams tyre degradation was as worse as Haas. It confirms that Red Bull style sidepods are very limited and a failure after 2022.

Can we stop this childishness now, which probably rather springs from that:

Technical analyses are based on facts, accurate comparisons and hard data. Wishful thinking, subjectivity and zealous approach are not really the right tools for technical discussions.

Since you have the exact facts for data based hard hitting technical analysis can you please share how many mm^3 additional volume does the W14 body work enclose and how many extra mm does the side pod protude at the widest and thinnest points compared to the W13.

If you go back to the W14 speculations thread and W13 they were saying any changes to sidepods means Mercedes is a failure and the zeropods is a mistake

Basically any technical changes Mercedes made to improve them = bad

This is a technical forum and frustration should not be the motivation. And if you say these things after one race despite the known facts (see Vanja's post which summarizes this nicely) - then, especially if you look at the above post, only frustration remains as motivation.

And Ferrari didn't look any better last year because of Red Bull's failures. There were enough races where Ferrari clearly beat Red Bull before the TD39 was introduced. Or failed while in the lead. Don't try to distort facts that everyone knows. Because that seems then only embarrassing. Sorry, but fact.

[LM10]

Ferrari looked better than what it was last year just because Redbull had all the DNFs at the start of the season

And Redbull was still always close if not in front at every race

Ferrari this year already on the 10th lap there was a 10 seconds gap

No upgrade can fix that unless you can bring 1 second and magic tyre deg quickly

You spamming the thread with this nonsense is getting out of hand. It’s so clear that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

[Andi76]

Ferrari looked better than what it was last year just because Redbull had all the DNFs at the start of the season

And Redbull was still always close if not in front at every race

Ferrari this year already on the 10th lap there was a 10 seconds gap

No upgrade can fix that unless you can bring 1 second and magic tyre deg quickly

You spamming the thread with this nonsense is getting out of hand. It’s so clear that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I would suggest to just not reply to his non-sense any more. As I just pointed out in my last post, this is all about the frustration of the side pods on the W13&14. He was one of the proponents of the Zeropods and always took personally every post that said that the Zeropods could bring problems with Front Wheel Wake Management with the corresponding effects on the aerodynamics. Or that the W14 is no longer a true Zeropod design and Mercedes will soon abandon it because it will fail.

[organic]

Recommend listening to the latest F1 nation podcast episode.. Ferrari test driver who has been there since 2004 (didn't catch the name sorry) discussed the Bahrain gp openly with the hosts

He talks a little about the reliability problem, and says there may be something with the ICE.

And also talks about tyres and how the soft responded well, and the hard poor (but we already knew this I suppose)

He says that Charles probably would have had the podium but not with a margin

[MDB983]

Ferrari looked better than what it was last year just because Redbull had all the DNFs at the start of the season

And Redbull was still always close if not in front at every race

Ferrari this year already on the 10th lap there was a 10 seconds gap

No upgrade can fix that unless you can bring 1 second and magic tyre deg quickly

Let's look at this logically:-

Ferrari identified a front wing issue in testing - insufficient downforce.
Ferrari unable to use the higher downforce wing in Bahrain.
Ferrari chews through its rear tyres in a rear limited track.
Ferrari have poor result in Bahrain, second only to RB in quali.

Conclusive - they should give up on this season, throw away their concept and start over with zero sidepods


PS Ferrari were pulling away from RB at around 1.5 seconds per lap in Australia in 2022 - Bad races happen, even for RB.

[AR3-GP]

Maybe the PU issue comes from the fact that Ferrari sandbagged basically from day 1 of pre-season through to FP3.

They had the six or 7 thousand kilometers distance done on the PU in testing, but how many of those laps were actually done with the PU in full tilt race mode?

Ferrari's top speeds jumped between FP2 race runs and the race. They were also clearly sandbagging with the PU for most of pre-season.

[Shal_Leg16]

the ferrari that was getting poles last year barely won any races and you want this ferrari that can't get poles win against a faster car in race?
just wait until aston martin gets the setup right it's over for ferrari

2023 is dominated by newey and followed by fallows

Car is not shyt. Obviously fans are venting because they are angry , if we do good job in next few races things will come down to normal...

But I do feel .. this aero/concept has its limitations/serious flaws. look at how swiftly AM changed its fortunes. all they did is steal few Adrien Newey disciples and copy RB concept. Even with the coping everything looks fine. And look at Mercs and Ferrari, both seem like stuck with same persistent issues ... Trying multiple things not knowing what to do.

exactly and i don't think it's about copying redbull

fallows ( who built the RB18) used what he learned from newey and applied to aston martin but by having original sideopods not a copy

there is something else going on in the floor and front suspension when you think that aston martin is doing that performance with mercedes component

and just look at alfa romeo they have no problem with tyre deg because they have same concept as redbull

haas copied ferrari and they have the same high tyres degradation

i think the concept is just at it's limit or they are stuck and haven't used some trick with the floor or suspension that newey and fallows know

Unless they go for complete overhaul of say suspention system or floor stuff I don't think they can catch RB. If it's only Ferrari & hass with major tyre issues then it's has to be some fundamental issue with the concept. Small tweeks won't work instead such approach is affecting the balance of the car and making it worse.

I'm afraid Max is on his way to his 3rd ....