2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Xyz22]

10 grid penalty for Leclerc in Jeddah.

Yikes, another terrible news. Hopefully a decent strategy to reach P4 at least.

[AR3-GP]

Changing topics back to racing:

Last year the race was lost because on hard tires, after the SC and VSC, LEC was simply unable to get the tires back to temperature as fast as RBR, even in quali Ferrari needed 2 warmup laps in both Jeddah and Australia. Aero efficiency is obviously critical.

This is last year's quali, PER v LEC:
https://i.imgur.com/X1yK2ce.jpeg

There are 2 slow corners where it's easy to see that mechanical grip matters most, every other corner is like T5-6-7 in Bahrain, fast corners where downforce matters.

On paper Ferrari should be great here, but that really depends on the gap in the slow corners, last year PER lost almost 0.25s just in the last corner, and 0.35s up till the back straight where LEC then lost 0.5s. T1 IMHO will be the real difference maker this year, in Bahrain Ferrari was losing 0.1s in quali and 0.2s+ in the race just in T1, traction out of T1 is less important here because the follow-on straight is short but still, at the end of the lap with no tires on T27 the car will be slow for sure so they really need to manage T1 well.

Also IMHO, the new rear wing only would make sense if it provides efficiency, losing top speed or better load to the rear isn't desirable judging by T5-6-7 in Bahrain.

All of this my opinion, probably wrong in more ways than one.

I wouldn't use T5-T6-T7 as a good example. That is where Red Bull was really destroying everyone in Bahrain. The RB drivers were using hardly any curb there on their qualifying laps. Sainz was constantly all over the exit curb on T7 nearly losing control.

Nah, RBR was gaining at T1, T8, T10 and T15, not 5,6,7. Even with Charles lap 11 being 0.8s slower than VER he was equally fast in 5,6,7. SF-23 has good aero, bad balance especially at slow speed.

On low fuel, the corners are easier because it requires less lateral force to make the turn. F = m*v^2/R . A turn of known curvature (R) requires less lateral force, F, when the mass, m is smaller.

Think of it like, even a Williams can get through a corner flat, on an empty tank, but it won't be able to that on Sunday since the downforce requirement is higher to do the same with 100kg of additional fuel onboard.

It's the race on high fuel where you weed out the haves from the have-nots. Ferrari couldn't keep the speed up through T5-T6-T7 on Sunday. It's in the telemetry. The Red Bull on the other hand keeps it's speed compared in the medium speed vs qualifying because of more load.

[dialtone]

I wouldn't use T5-T6-T7 as a good example. That is where Red Bull was really destroying everyone in Bahrain. The RB drivers were using hardly any curb there on their qualifying laps. Sainz was constantly all over the exit curb on T7 nearly losing control.

Nah, RBR was gaining at T1, T8, T10 and T15, not 5,6,7. Even with Charles lap 11 being 0.8s slower than VER he was equally fast in 5,6,7. SF-23 has good aero, bad balance especially at slow speed.

On low fuel, the corners are easier because it requires less lateral force to make the turn. F = m*v^2/R . A turn of known curvature (R) requires less lateral force, F, when the mass, m is smaller.

Think of it like, even a Williams can get through a corner flat, on an empty tank, but it won't be able to that on Sunday since the downforce requirement is higher to do the same with 100kg of additional fuel onboard.

It's the race on high fuel where you weed out the haves from the have-nots. Ferrari couldn't keep the speed up through T5-T6-T7 on Sunday. It's in the telemetry. The Red Bull on the other hand keeps it's speed compared in the medium speed vs qualifying because of more load.

I quoted lap 11 of the race man. That's not low fuel. 5-6-7 were not a gain for RBR

[LM10]

Nah, RBR was gaining at T1, T8, T10 and T15, not 5,6,7. Even with Charles lap 11 being 0.8s slower than VER he was equally fast in 5,6,7. SF-23 has good aero, bad balance especially at slow speed.

I think it's clear (thanks to your nice analyses among others) that what the SF-23 lacks is surely not downforce/aero. Being the fastest car in T5, T6 and T7 despite the slim wings is quite telling. The car lacks balance and mechanical grip which shows at low speed and traction zones. I hope that the solution will not be hard to achieve with better understanding of the car and better setup.

[AR3-GP]

Nah, RBR was gaining at T1, T8, T10 and T15, not 5,6,7. Even with Charles lap 11 being 0.8s slower than VER he was equally fast in 5,6,7. SF-23 has good aero, bad balance especially at slow speed.

I think it's clear (thanks to your nice analyses among others) that what the SF-23 lacks is surely not downforce/aero. Being the fastest car in T5, T6 and T7 despite the slim wings is quite telling.

It's not telling because being quickest on low fuel, isn't the same as being quickest on high fuel.

As I explained before, F = m*v^2/R . When the mass is smaller, the downforce requirement is lower.

[dialtone]

Nah, RBR was gaining at T1, T8, T10 and T15, not 5,6,7. Even with Charles lap 11 being 0.8s slower than VER he was equally fast in 5,6,7. SF-23 has good aero, bad balance especially at slow speed.

On low fuel, the corners are easier because it requires less lateral force to make the turn. F = m*v^2/R . A turn of known curvature (R) requires less lateral force, F, when the mass, m is smaller.

Think of it like, even a Williams can get through a corner flat, on an empty tank, but it won't be able to that on Sunday since the downforce requirement is higher to do the same with 100kg of additional fuel onboard.

It's the race on high fuel where you weed out the haves from the have-nots. Ferrari couldn't keep the speed up through T5-T6-T7 on Sunday. It's in the telemetry. The Red Bull on the other hand keeps it's speed compared in the medium speed vs qualifying because of more load.

I quoted lap 11 of the race man. That's not low fuel. 5-6-7 were not a gain for RBR

This is the average lap from 1 to 11 in the race between LEC and VER on softs.

Few things are safe to say:

* Ferrari almost always brakes later and from higher speed (+6kph even)
* In every slow corner Ferrari is 4-5kph slower than RBR
* 5-6-7 are a wash, Ferrari would gain in those corners if it wasn't for the bad exit from T8 that compromises the straight to T10, the only straight where Ferrari has lower speed at the end of it. And why was that? LEC was saving tires big time in the first 8 laps, then from 8-12 (which ironically are slower laps) he's just straight up faster in 5-6-7 on average.

[dialtone]

Nah, RBR was gaining at T1, T8, T10 and T15, not 5,6,7. Even with Charles lap 11 being 0.8s slower than VER he was equally fast in 5,6,7. SF-23 has good aero, bad balance especially at slow speed.

I think it's clear (thanks to your nice analyses among others) that what the SF-23 lacks is surely not downforce/aero. Being the fastest car in T5, T6 and T7 despite the slim wings is quite telling.

It's not telling because being quickest on low fuel, isn't the same as being quickest on high fuel.

Can you provide your data? I think you must be looking at some other year or session.

[AR3-GP]

On low fuel, the corners are easier because it requires less lateral force to make the turn. F = m*v^2/R . A turn of known curvature (R) requires less lateral force, F, when the mass, m is smaller.

Think of it like, even a Williams can get through a corner flat, on an empty tank, but it won't be able to that on Sunday since the downforce requirement is higher to do the same with 100kg of additional fuel onboard.

It's the race on high fuel where you weed out the haves from the have-nots. Ferrari couldn't keep the speed up through T5-T6-T7 on Sunday. It's in the telemetry. The Red Bull on the other hand keeps it's speed compared in the medium speed vs qualifying because of more load.

I quoted lap 11 of the race man. That's not low fuel. 5-6-7 were not a gain for RBR

https://i.imgur.com/yqpIt3f.jpeg

This is the average lap from 1 to 11 in the race between LEC and VER on softs.

Few things are safe to say:

* Ferrari almost always brakes later and from higher speed (+6kph even)
* In every slow corner Ferrari is 4-5kph slower than RBR
* 5-6-7 are a wash, Ferrari would gain in those corners if it wasn't for the bad exit from T8 that compromises the straight to T10, the only straight where Ferrari has lower speed at the end of it. And why was that? LEC was saving tires big time in the first 8 laps, then from 8-12 (which ironically are slower laps) he's just straight up faster in 5-6-7 on average.

Red Bull was managing from lap 1.

[dialtone]

Red Bull was managing from lap 1.

That Twitter thread? So you chose to provide no data about T5-6-7 in the first 10 laps of the race? Alright, at least I know the conversation is over .

EDIT: for those that are likely not going to read that twitter thread, the only thing it says is that VER manages to keep a higher speed through T6 despite spending less time on gas and that T7 he lifts and brakes earlier.

Just to recap your thesis: RBR made all (most) of his gains in T5-6-7 during the race, despite the fact that each slow corner, and even T11-12, they were consistently 4+kph faster than Ferrari while the difference in T5-6-7, if it's there at all since you need to really pick laps, is maybe 2kph and influenced more by the exit from T8. The data doesn't support your thesis, even the Twitter thread if you read it doesn't say what you are saying here.

[AR3-GP]

Red Bull was managing from lap 1.

That Twitter thread? So you chose to provide no data about T5-6-7 in the first 10 laps of the race? Alright, at least I know the conversation is over .

The picture that is visible above your post is the telemetry of the first 10 laps.

Is the twitter link not showing an image for you? You should see this:
The translation is available if you log in to twitter. You can see Verstappen lifting and coasting heavily everywhere in the opening laps. Entry to t6, entry to t13 etc etc.

[dialtone]

Red Bull was managing from lap 1.

That Twitter thread? So you chose to provide no data about T5-6-7 in the first 10 laps of the race? Alright, at least I know the conversation is over .

The picture that is visible above your post is the telemetry of the first 10 laps.

Is the twitter link not showing an image for you? You should see this:
The translation is available if you log in to twitter. You can see Verstappen lifting and coasting heavily everywhere in the opening laps. Entry to t6, entry to t13 etc etc.

lmao, yeah it does show it. it's just not what your thesis was on RBR being a moster on 5-6-7 and not what the rest of the thread says anyway. Also not what happens in those corners, it's not lift and coast in 5-6-7.

[Juzh]

Verstappen is coasting in all high speed corners for entire race, he leaves like half a trach width margin on exits, that's why leclerc looks faster in those corners. Lec is also doing some management, but nowhere close what Ver is doing up front. Laptime damage is done primarily in slow speed where management is not required. So verstappen basically only pushed in a few sub ~150 kmh corners.

[AR3-GP]

That Twitter thread? So you chose to provide no data about T5-6-7 in the first 10 laps of the race? Alright, at least I know the conversation is over .

The picture that is visible above your post is the telemetry of the first 10 laps.

Is the twitter link not showing an image for you? You should see this:
The translation is available if you log in to twitter. You can see Verstappen lifting and coasting heavily everywhere in the opening laps. Entry to t6, entry to t13 etc etc.

lmao, yeah it does show it. it's just not what your thesis was on RBR being a moster on 5-6-7 and not what the rest of the thread says anyway. Also not what happens in those corners, it's not lift and coast in 5-6-7.

What I said is in the twitter thread. Did you use the translation? You need to log in.



The damage was already done in T5/T6 among other places on the 2nd and 3rd lap when Verstappen already had a 2 second lead. He had 10kph+ on Leclerc when he was trying. Verstappen was managing heavily beyond that point. This was discussed with his engineers before the race. You can see it in the throttle traces. I say "lift and coast" because if you lift early, you are coasting, as the telemetry indicates. Look at T11 and T13 as well.

[f1316]

10 grid penalty for Leclerc in Jeddah.

Yikes, another terrible news. Hopefully a decent strategy to reach P4 at least.

The biggest hope is that they’re competitive - if so, Jeddah is a track with high likelihood of safety car and then much is achievable. But conversely, even P4 is not likely unless the car is competitive.

Given Vasseur has confirmed https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vas ... /10443804/ that this track is likely to suit them more, there’s “mega room” for improvement through setup, and they’re brining updates to Jeddah, I’m optimistic the pace will be good. It’s a shame that, if these reliability issues had to happen, they didn’t happen to Sainz (nothing against him but he is to Charles what Rubens was to Michael or Massa to Alonso - quick on his day but not the one you want leading the charge) but he’s good in quali and if he manages to stick it on pole can potentially also contain the field spread if his race pace is as poor as usual.

[jambuka]

Ferrari will need at least first 3 races to figure the car out. They will become dominant for the remaining races if there are no reliability issues.