Mercedes W14

[Sevach]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... weit-vorn/

After all the talk about cockpit position, Hamilton is complaining about... cockpit positioning, too far forward for him.

If Merc think it's better for performance, and the other, more long term driver can drive it, where is the incentive to change?

None.

Also with the limited wheelbase teams no longer can do that "angle the wishbones forward trick" to extend the front of the car, that change would need to be matched by a shortening at the rear, totally out of the question.
Only a new chassis with rearranged internals would be able to achieve this.

[Farnborough]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... weit-vorn/

After all the talk about cockpit position, Hamilton is complaining about... cockpit positioning, too far forward for him.

If Merc think it's better for performance, and the other, more long term driver can drive it, where is the incentive to change?

None.

Also with the limited wheelbase teams no longer can do that "angle the wishbones forward trick" to extend the front of the car, that change would need to be matched by a shortening at the rear, totally out of the question.
Only a new chassis with rearranged internals would be able to achieve this.

Both front and rear look to have been moved that way on RB 19 to keep wheelbase but shift the tub backward. That's how it looks from principal top arm geometry.

[Farnborough]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... weit-vorn/

After all the talk about cockpit position, Hamilton is complaining about... cockpit positioning, too far forward for him.

If Merc think it's better for performance, and the other, more long term driver can drive it, where is the incentive to change?

Really interesting to see that they've definitely changed it.

Speculative, but relevant here I feel.

If they felt from W13 it was beneficial to move mass forward, and now find that it wasn't the answer they were looking for.....could it now be a compromise on W14 but legacy of the struggle last year to understand where they were ?

Not a criticism of GR but he has been used to driving cars that don't perform, is he the best judge of this one now. As noted, this is not criticism, but observation of his capability to drive a compromise in platform at very high level.

I do think without the skill of these two drivers the MB would likely be further back in the field, probably behind Alpine. They really are dragging it to a peak of it's performance in current iteration.

To shorten that question, is the resulting W14 now compromised fundamentally in trying to cope with 13 shortage of performance?

[Farnborough]

Actually, isn't the above a statement of the obvious ?

The bit about mass distribution can only be a consequence of their W13 development path, by commitment to extending that route.

It may now be fundamentally unsound, particularly if they change direction/concept.

[Owen.C93]

The article is clear that the cockpit was forward in the W13 as well but they weren't able to change it due to their concept. No indication it's changed in the W14, so previous conclusions still stand.

[Farnborough]

The article is clear that the cockpit was forward in the W13 as well but they weren't able to change it due to their concept. No indication it's changed in the W14, so previous conclusions still stand.

Oops, didn't see that bit.

Strange that LH wasn't quoted in observation of this last year.

Still, it looks a likely compromise if they change concept in aero platform.

[Andi76]

This information is from F1s own website and Marc Hughes :

https://postimages.org/

I checked this to make sure I wasn't mistaken, although I was sure because it was said so many times. The driver's position and sidepods were further back on the Mercedes than on Ferrari and Red Bull. The engine was moved further back especially for this. As I said - was explained 2022 umpteen times by all experts whether Hughes, Piola and how they are called all. And I believe that they know a little more precisely, after all, they are standing next to the cars.

Not only it's Mark Hughes (who has very little credibility), you are also showing me that completely nonsenical comparison using the totally fake and wrong 3d render that Mercedes published in 2022... and this should be more accurate than my comparison?

The accurate photos and Technic speak for themselves.

Well, if you claim that you are more credible than people like Girgio Piola, Marc Hughes or Craig Scarborough and pretty much every other F1 expert of rank, who see and compare things on the spot and not only on photos then that alone is a statement that speaks for itself. And everyone can now make up their own mind about it and you.

I have to revisit this discussion now - Hamilton just said that the Mercedes cockpit is 5cm further forward...so certain things in this discussion were obviously wrong, either regarding the W13 or the W14 or both.

[chrisc90]

Interesting looking back at the thread when cockpit discussions were happening and a lot of people said it stayed the same, some said it had moved backwards - not really a lot of agreement.

I am curious to know how a few CM's further forward would make a lack of grip at the rear. Doesnt really seem plausible considering the narrow window of weight distribution the cars need to be set to by the regs.

[ringo]

As Lewis. I do not think the cog or cop of the car is actually different and is affecting him.
I think what is affecting him is how perceives perspective; how his brain interprits where the corners are, braking points, the feeling of where the wheels are in his head.
As he says he feels like he is riding on the front axle.
It's as we are used to having our eyes on ear level and looking out, but then suddenly wake up the next day with eyes on our navel level. Nothing much has changed physically but the point of view has literally changed which will affect coordination.
I think this is one of the things the team did not listen to him about during development and maybe why he sayd the driver is the "gateway".
He was very intentional in selecting those words.

[vorticism]

Did the floor edge increase in height?

https://www.racefans.net/2023/03/31/pic ... s-updates/

[pursue_one's]

Did the floor edge increase in height?

https://www.racefans.net/2023/03/31/pic ... s-updates/
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 0-56-4.jpg

According to AMuS(Michael Schmidt), Mercedes had a small upgrade on the floor edge.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... un-zeiten/

[mstar]

Did the floor edge increase in height?

https://www.racefans.net/2023/03/31/pic ... s-updates/
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 0-56-4.jpg

According to AMuS(Michael Schmidt), Mercedes had a small upgrade on the floor edge.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... un-zeiten/

Is it annoying lewis said we had "no upgrades" post qualy. Unless the upgrades where not run?

[Big Tea]

Did the floor edge increase in height?

https://www.racefans.net/2023/03/31/pic ... s-updates/
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 0-56-4.jpg

According to AMuS(Michael Schmidt), Mercedes had a small upgrade on the floor edge.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... un-zeiten/

Is it annoying lewis said we had "no upgrades" post qualy. Unless the upgrades where not run?

Maybe Hamilton did not consider it enough to be an upgrade, just a 'tweak' or 'adjustment'. It would probably have been on the show-and-tell report if it had been substantial enough to count

[ringo]

That floor edge has a huge radius. Maybe the maximum allowed. Note also a fin adjacent to the floor edge curl on top of the floor near the foot of the sidepod. Interesting stuff!

[Farnborough]

It has what looks like a channel going out separately to / through the side stay support area too.

Unless the weave in structure is giving odd perspective, or it was there before?