2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[organic]

Disappointed but not surprised

[Wouter]

[jambuka]

Is Leclerc on Schumacher level in extracting car potential ? I feel technically he is at par but he needs to have a ruthless mentality outside of just driving. On the radio, in strategies.

[Chuckjr]

Imo, absolutely not.

And yes, Shaal needs to become more feisty and ruthless. I’m not sure he has the eye if the tiger, tbh. Schumacher had it as well as Senna. But that’s just my subjective opinion, nothing more.

[Vinlarr89]

Sorry but you cannot compare the two. Schumacher was a phenomenally good driver, but also along with Ross Brawn dragged the team along to get to where it needed too. The situation is completely different now, and two very different eras to compare.

[Venturiation]

i think the biggest issue is the budget cap
if there wasn't a budget cap ferrari would have won 2022 and made a perfect car for 2023

[AR3-GP]

i think the biggest issue is the budget cap
if there wasn't a budget cap ferrari would have won 2022 and made a perfect car for 2023

If there was no budget cap, everyone of the big 3 teams would have had a lot more development, not just Ferrari. Rb would have started the season underweight. Mercedes would have been able to spend their way out of the problems of the W13. New chassis, new everything, whatever they wanted as long as money could buy it.

[Venturiation]

i think the biggest issue is the budget cap
if there wasn't a budget cap ferrari would have won 2022 and made a perfect car for 2023

If there was no budget cap, everyone of the big 3 teams would have had a lot more development, not just Ferrari. Rb would have started the season underweight. Mercedes would have been able to spend their way out of the problems of the W13. New chassis, new everything, whatever they wanted as long as money could buy it.

not only that but from the start the car would be way more advanced and porpoising would have been controlled from race 1

teams could have also tested others concepts
but mostly ferrari that had a good car at the started they would have fixed all their problems and be ahead of redbull, you can also experience more with upgrades every race

i don't understand why they are ruining the F1 just to let teams like haas and williams to stay, they are in just for the money

F1 should be about what you can make the best with unlimited budget and CFD wind tunnel

[AR3-GP]

i think the biggest issue is the budget cap
if there wasn't a budget cap ferrari would have won 2022 and made a perfect car for 2023

If there was no budget cap, everyone of the big 3 teams would have had a lot more development, not just Ferrari. Rb would have started the season underweight. Mercedes would have been able to spend their way out of the problems of the W13. New chassis, new everything, whatever they wanted as long as money could buy it.

not only that but from the start the car would be way more advanced and porpoising would have been controlled from race 1

teams could have also tested others concepts
but mostly ferrari that had a good car at the started they would have fixed all their problems and be ahead of redbull, you can also experience more with upgrades every race

i don't understand why they are ruining the F1 just to let teams like haas and williams to stay, they are in just for the money

F1 should be about what you can make the best with unlimited budget and CFD wind tunnel

Don't be fooled by the "we care about Haas and Williams" narrative. While it has a comforting david vs goliath type of feel, it was never about them. Mercedes, Ferrari, and RB stakeholders voted for this system. The three of them are the most dominant political powers in this sport and the budget cap would never have happened without their complicity. It's about money for them too. None of them really wanted to spend 500 million a season, but they did because their rivals did. With their rivals forced under the same budget cap, they gladly took the opportunity to cut their cost while increasing their income.

[dialtone]

If there was no budget cap, everyone of the big 3 teams would have had a lot more development, not just Ferrari. Rb would have started the season underweight. Mercedes would have been able to spend their way out of the problems of the W13. New chassis, new everything, whatever they wanted as long as money could buy it.

not only that but from the start the car would be way more advanced and porpoising would have been controlled from race 1

teams could have also tested others concepts
but mostly ferrari that had a good car at the started they would have fixed all their problems and be ahead of redbull, you can also experience more with upgrades every race

i don't understand why they are ruining the F1 just to let teams like haas and williams to stay, they are in just for the money

F1 should be about what you can make the best with unlimited budget and CFD wind tunnel

Don't be fooled by the "we care about Haas and Williams" narrative. While it has a comforting david vs goliath type of feel, it was never about them. Mercedes, Ferrari, and RB stakeholders voted for this system. The three of them are the most dominant political powers in this sport and the budget cap would never have happened without their complicity. It's about money for them too. None of them really wanted to spend 500 million a season, but they did because their rivals did. With their rivals forced under the same budget cap, they gladly took the opportunity to cut their cost while increasing their income.

I don't think I agree entirely here...

Ferrari approved TD-39, the removal of private testing, the F1 rules for 2005, the change of tires mid season in 2013, the change of tires mid season in 2019 and so on. I think It's entirely fair to say that a team that, after the cap introduction, decided to invest another $150mm+ in WEC, wasn't a team that was looking for a cost cut. It's fairly hard to impossible to let go people in Italy, their expenses are somewhat set, they can reallocate some of them to wec, some probably to their car production line, but there's a limit to how many they can move around.

Rules have 100% not evolved to favor Ferrari in any way over the past 20 years, consistently Ferrari has seen worse favor from stewarding than almost any other team (last F1 weekend is just the latest example).

Ultimately I think it's a matter of F1 business, FOM and obviously Ferrari like for there to be more competitors in F1 to grow viewership and that requires a cost cut to allow more entrants and closer field, however clearly they haven't been the keenest in taking advantage of, or negotiating the right set of, compromises in the rulebook, and have never really used the veto power for their own advantage in the past 20 years, although IMHO the concerns for why that veto exists in the first place are very much real today as well. Obviously it's also entirely plausible, perhaps even truest, that Ferrari has been too arrogant believing that none of those changes they approved would impact them too much, only to discover later that they got shafted, very much the case for TD-39, while their competitors are ruthless in this regard, something that Marchionne wanted as well.

[AR3-GP]

not only that but from the start the car would be way more advanced and porpoising would have been controlled from race 1

teams could have also tested others concepts
but mostly ferrari that had a good car at the started they would have fixed all their problems and be ahead of redbull, you can also experience more with upgrades every race

i don't understand why they are ruining the F1 just to let teams like haas and williams to stay, they are in just for the money

F1 should be about what you can make the best with unlimited budget and CFD wind tunnel

Don't be fooled by the "we care about Haas and Williams" narrative. While it has a comforting david vs goliath type of feel, it was never about them. Mercedes, Ferrari, and RB stakeholders voted for this system. The three of them are the most dominant political powers in this sport and the budget cap would never have happened without their complicity. It's about money for them too. None of them really wanted to spend 500 million a season, but they did because their rivals did. With their rivals forced under the same budget cap, they gladly took the opportunity to cut their cost while increasing their income.

I don't think I agree entirely here...

Ferrari approved TD-39, the removal of private testing, the F1 rules for 2005, the change of tires mid season in 2013, the change of tires mid season in 2019 and so on. I think It's entirely fair to say that a team that, after the cap introduction, decided to invest another $150mm+ in WEC, wasn't a team that was looking for a cost cut. It's fairly hard to impossible to let go people in Italy, their expenses are somewhat set, they can reallocate some of them to wec, some probably to their car production line, but there's a limit to how many they can move around.

Ferrari never had interest in the top prototype class until they were no longer spending 500 million or whatever it was in F1.

Now they get to participate in two premier motorsports categories on the original budget or less. Is Ferrari really going to be complaint about that? Nevermind the fact that their heritage payments subsidize a large part of the budget cap…

[Mr.S]

Ferrari is being run really bad. The review request was a joke. There was no new evidence & Sainz absolutely deserved the penalty after knocking Alonso out. 5s is the lowest possible penalty. If anything, I hop he got some additional penalty points.

Ferrari are the only team which after fixing PU issues from last year @ the same level while every single other team have made a big step-up, from Aston to Mercedes to RB & even Alpine ! Ferrari have got nothing with the PU getting fixed (rumoured). And Vassuer till now has shown this is beyond his capability. Let's see what happens. There is a reason Ferrari are deservedly 4th when they thought they will be 1st or 2nd !

[F1NAC]

Ferrari is being run really bad. The review request was a joke. There was no new evidence & Sainz absolutely deserved the penalty after knocking Alonso out. 5s is the lowest possible penalty. If anything, I hop he got some additional penalty points.

Ferrari are the only team which after fixing PU issues from last year @ the same level while every single other team have made a big step-up, from Aston to Mercedes to RB & even Alpine ! Ferrari have got nothing with the PU getting fixed (rumoured). And Vassuer till now has shown this is beyond his capability. Let's see what happens. There is a reason Ferrari are deservedly 4th when they thought they will be 1st or 2nd !

This is F1Technical, not Facebook.

Bunch of nonsense without any good argument.

[dialtone]

Don't be fooled by the "we care about Haas and Williams" narrative. While it has a comforting david vs goliath type of feel, it was never about them. Mercedes, Ferrari, and RB stakeholders voted for this system. The three of them are the most dominant political powers in this sport and the budget cap would never have happened without their complicity. It's about money for them too. None of them really wanted to spend 500 million a season, but they did because their rivals did. With their rivals forced under the same budget cap, they gladly took the opportunity to cut their cost while increasing their income.

I don't think I agree entirely here...

Ferrari approved TD-39, the removal of private testing, the F1 rules for 2005, the change of tires mid season in 2013, the change of tires mid season in 2019 and so on. I think It's entirely fair to say that a team that, after the cap introduction, decided to invest another $150mm+ in WEC, wasn't a team that was looking for a cost cut. It's fairly hard to impossible to let go people in Italy, their expenses are somewhat set, they can reallocate some of them to wec, some probably to their car production line, but there's a limit to how many they can move around.

Ferrari never had interest in the top prototype class until they were no longer spending 500 million or whatever it was in F1.

Now they get to participate in two premier motorsports categories on the original budget or less. Is Ferrari really going to be complaint about that? Nevermind the fact that their heritage payments subsidize a large part of the budget cap…

Fair points yes.

Just so we are clear though Ferrari made almost 1bil euros profit in 2022 so they aren't exactly short on cash overall, if they really wanted to enter wec they would have even earlier, even now the team is run by AF Corse, your point makes a ton of sense still though. It was worth it to enter WEC now for them because of the new rules and the many manufacturers entering the races, again they care about viewership and wec until a few years ago had very little viewership and before LMH you needed another $250mil+ to win.

Regarding the point of heritage payments... It can feel unfair, perhaps it's unfair, but it's unquestionable that Ferrari brings in the most viewers among the teams if Ferrari wasn't worth it those payments would have ended. Even WEC subreddit:



Clear benefits from Ferrari having entered the fray, look at this thread alone from 2019: https://www.reddit.com/r/wec/comments/a ... programme/

anyway, I think we can both be right on this.

[Andres125sx]

i think the biggest issue is the budget cap
if there wasn't a budget cap ferrari would have won 2022 and made a perfect car for 2023

Like they did in 2021, 2020, 2019 before the budget cap?

Yeah perfect car those seasons...