2023 Miami Grand Prix - Miami Intl. Autodrome, May 05 - 07

[TimW]

Both Lewis and George on Max in Australia and George again in Baku. First lap though. And George was pushing it imho.

George was doing to Max exactly what Max has been doing to everyone else for years. And as George has said, Max doesn't like it being given back to him. Which means it's exactly the right thing to do from George's perspective because Max will end up giving way in order to protect his title chances. This is exactly what Lewis was doing back in the days when Max was being hard-nosed around him. Now Max understands what Lewis was having to do and why.

Goes around, comes around.

Exactly. Lewis got attacked and labelled weak, constantly leaving doors open, yielding, and supposedly not on the level of the new generation of drivers coming through. All that nonsense.

Fortunately for Max, it’s not quite a similar landscape, as there is only the RB to fight with, and Perez will slowly but surely fade away by the summer break.

I think the narrative that Russell has less to loose that Verstappen is a bit nonsense. Yes Verstappen is in the title fight, but with the speed of the RB and how he normally has the upper hand over Perez, he can actually take a crash or two. For Russell, however, it is very important that he beats Hamilton over the course of this year. Doing that will require him to score points consistently, and not risk them in senseless fights with Verstappen.

For Russell, there nothing to gain in the fight with Verstappen in Baku, given RB's superiority, except for having a very temporary buffer to the cars behind. Same for Verstappen, there was nothing to gain except not being behind Russell for a lap or two. I think for both it was not worth the risk they took.

[Vanja #66]

Would be something if anyone tried going 1-stop on S-M strategy this year. M-H last year was a breeze...

[organic]

Would be something if anyone tried going 1-stop on S-M strategy this year. M-H last year was a breeze...

It will depend on how the resurfacing has gone I think.. could be completely different asphalt . I read they had fully resurfaced track since last year due to it being extremely crumbly

[Sieper]

George was doing to Max exactly what Max has been doing to everyone else for years. And as George has said, Max doesn't like it being given back to him. Which means it's exactly the right thing to do from George's perspective because Max will end up giving way in order to protect his title chances. This is exactly what Lewis was doing back in the days when Max was being hard-nosed around him. Now Max understands what Lewis was having to do and why.

Goes around, comes around.

Exactly. Lewis got attacked and labelled weak, constantly leaving doors open, yielding, and supposedly not on the level of the new generation of drivers coming through. All that nonsense.

Fortunately for Max, it’s not quite a similar landscape, as there is only the RB to fight with, and Perez will slowly but surely fade away by the summer break.

I think the narrative that Russell has less to loose that Verstappen is a bit nonsense. Yes Verstappen is in the title fight, but with the speed of the RB and how he normally has the upper hand over Perez, he can actually take a crash or two. For Russell, however, it is very important that he beats Hamilton over the course of this year. Doing that will require him to score points consistently, and not risk them in senseless fights with Verstappen.

For Russell, there nothing to gain in the fight with Verstappen in Baku, given RB's superiority, except for having a very temporary buffer to the cars behind. Same for Verstappen, there was nothing to gain except not being behind Russell for a lap or two. I think for both it was not worth the risk they took.

It is not good or wrong, right? Both fought for it. Russell slid very wide, wasn’t in control of his car, Max risked being there. Russell has every right to be agressive, but imho he does need to control his car better. He has been in too many first lap tangles where he was largely to blame. Not talking about just Baku. But ultimately, that is why we watch F1, to see them go to the limits. If Russell would not have slid it could have been a magnificent fight. Perhaps should have been.

[Farnborough]

Agree about GR car control, he's making too many incidents like this, Sainz and Zhou among them !

And with a short memory after the plane crash he caused to Valteri, then finished with a slap on the head to VB, now he places another driver's comments as loss of control building himself an Ocon reputation if not careful there.

I look forward to those side by side battles, which ever one come out on top, makes the racing exciting. GR was left room on the inside but ultimately braked too late. All his subsequent comments are born of embarrassment.

[Farnborough]

Would be something if anyone tried going 1-stop on S-M strategy this year. M-H last year was a breeze...

Hopefully someone will take those marginal calls to give difference in strategy roll out. It's good if you see something unwinding toward the end to keep it interesting.

[ValeVida46]

Agree about GR car control, he's making too many incidents like this, Sainz and Zhou among them !

And with a short memory after the plane crash he caused to Valteri, then finished with a slap on the head to VB, now he places another driver's comments as loss of control building himself an Ocon reputation if not careful there.

I look forward to those side by side battles, which ever one come out on top, makes the racing exciting. GR was left room on the inside but ultimately braked too late. All his subsequent comments are born of embarrassment.

Cold tyres, full tanks and he was taking the inside line.

Before entering that tight left hander, as a driver you know there is a risk of being closed out.
At the start of race, double that risk.

That RB could've breezed past the Merc without DRS in a heartbeat.

[chrisc90]

Not really basics to build your argument on though.

How many 1st lap incidents have you seen similar and the driver was punished? Plenty.

[basti313]

It is not good or wrong, right? Both fought for it. Russell slid very wide, wasn’t in control of his car, Max risked being there. Russell has every right to be agressive, but imho he does need to control his car better. He has been in too many first lap tangles where he was largely to blame. Not talking about just Baku. But ultimately, that is why we watch F1, to see them go to the limits. If Russell would not have slid it could have been a magnificent fight. Perhaps should have been.

I think your last point is excellent. Not only..."should have been"...every of these stupid crashes robs us a nice battle, a "magnificent fight" as you say. Examples are many...Bottas bowling in Hungary, Monza, Silverstone 2021, last year Brazil...no matter whom to blame every one of these stupid crashes killed a substantial part of the race.

And I am a bit surprised that people say "Verstappen would have done the same"....so where is the example where Verstappen outbreaked himself on the inside and lost control to slide into his opponent?
So I am surprised that Rus did not even take a penalty, he just simply drove into his opponent. Ver was correctly penalized for sending it on the inside for example in Monza although he still had control over the car and there was space. I wonder when the FIA will start featuring clean fights in F1...

I hope we do not have this again this weekend, Turn 1 in Miami is perfect for a clean fight only if the inside driver is not sending wide the one on the outside.

[rbirules]

no one will come close to overtaking a Red Bull anyway, but this way they don't end up on pole, at least.

a valid point.

How many overtakes on a RB have there been so far? not including the first lap or pit lane overtakes?

Overtakes of a RB in 2023 . . .

Bahrain:
-Perez passed by Leclerc at the start

Jeddah:
-Perez passed by Alonso at the start (Alonso penalized for starting position)

Australia:
-Max passed by Russell at the start
-Max passed by Hamilton early on lap 1
-Going to ignore Perez losing places on last restart

Baku sprint:
-Max passed by Russell on lap 1, turn 2 (collision)

Baku:
-none (Perez was about to pass Max before he pitted but does that even count?)

After the starts or early on the first lap if cars aren't ahead of the Red Bull they stand almost no chance of matching their race pace on heavy fuel loads. Once the Red Bull gets past any cars that passed them at the start they are usually not bothered again.

[dren]

Love to see P-rez get the win here. I think Ferrari will be on pole.

[ValeVida46]

Not really basics to build your argument on though.

How many 1st lap incidents have you seen similar and the driver was punished? Plenty.

The FIA said nothing doing.

Having cold tyres and full load of fuel is an intrinsic fact for every car starting the race.
That is a solid foundation for any argument on 1st lap incidents.

As for the rest... numerous 1st lap incidents go unpunished. That doesn't change the previous point.
And nor does it change the glaring omission that Max could've breezed past George a few corners later down the straight.

Aside from Red Bull blowing everyone away by a second a lap, this was the only talking point of the weekend
Roles reversed and there would no doubt be opinions changed.

[organic]

Love to see P-rez get the win here. I think Ferrari will be on pole.

Same, on both fronts.

[langedweil]

Agree about GR car control, he's making too many incidents like this, Sainz and Zhou among them !

And with a short memory after the plane crash he caused to Valteri, then finished with a slap on the head to VB, now he places another driver's comments as loss of control building himself an Ocon reputation if not careful there.

I look forward to those side by side battles, which ever one come out on top, makes the racing exciting. GR was left room on the inside but ultimately braked too late. All his subsequent comments are born of embarrassment.

Fully agree ...
Absolutely nothing wrong with hard and tough racing, but braking too late/divebomb and bite a huge chuck out of your opponents sidepod (instead of some contact) is one thing, but remaining on your high horse afterwards is silly. And not just once, but he keeps doing that. Like you said, Ocon'ish ..

[organic]

Agree about GR car control, he's making too many incidents like this, Sainz and Zhou among them !

And with a short memory after the plane crash he caused to Valteri, then finished with a slap on the head to VB, now he places another driver's comments as loss of control building himself an Ocon reputation if not careful there.

I look forward to those side by side battles, which ever one come out on top, makes the racing exciting. GR was left room on the inside but ultimately braked too late. All his subsequent comments are born of embarrassment.

Fully agree ...
Absolutely nothing wrong with hard and tough racing, but braking too late/divebomb and bite a huge chuck out of your opponents sidepod (instead of some contact) is one thing, but remaining on your high horse afterwards is silly. And not just once, but he keeps doing that. Like you said, Ocon'ish ..

Long time it may benefit George to cultivate a reputation for being one to avoid in lap 1 scraps; it could become very profitable once their car is capable of fighting for wins on merit.

Max did the same and benefited heavily during the first half of the 2021 season from that reputation that he built whilst driving a regular podium scoring car, which is what the w14 also is