2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Sieper]

Max admits it's the car.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verst ... -shoulder/

Amazing, Max makes a kind comment about Lewis but you see it as another opportunity to start another my drivers is bestest troll attempt. We won’t bite here as you have seen and if you have nothing positive to contribute, why contribute at all? You don’t see us RBR fans doing that in the Mercedes team thread.

[Just_a_fan]

Max admits it's the car.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verst ... -shoulder/

Amazing, Max makes a kind comment about Lewis but you see it as another opportunity to start another my drivers is bestest troll attempt. We won’t bite here as you have seen and if you have nothing positive to contribute, why contribute at all? You don’t see us RBR fans doing that in the Mercedes team thread.

He also says you can't win without a good car. Exactly what we all know and what people were constantly saying about Hamilton a few years ago. So where's the issue?

[chrisc90]

Car helps a lot, but everything else around it also plays a part. You can look back at the 'underdog' wins where midfield/lower paced cars have been winners. Ocon in Hungary for example.
Let
The car, the strategy, the teamwork, the mechanics, the pitstops, the people back at the factory all play a part in making the 'fastest car'. The driver is just the jewel in the crown. If a driver has a car thats 1/2 - 1second faster than others, then the designers have done a bloody good job at creating a fine piece of machinery. That makes it much easier for the driver to get wins/titles/records etc. (at any point in the history of F1)

Maybe Liberty should just bang all these drivers in identical cars for 1 weekend a year and see where people end up. let drivers and team do the setting up, strategists do the strategy and see what happens. Would add some interest to the sport and we see the bestest drivers drive equal machinery.

Max is one of the best drivers on the grid at the minute, the consistency of lap times, the tyre management and the millimetre perfection driving between 2 steel barriers is near enough unrivalled.

Not taking away from the other drivers who have had similar stints of victories, precision qualifying laps etc.

[organic]

https://www.oe24.at/sport/motorsport/he ... /557670643

Red Bull Motorsport Director Marko (80) didn't have much time to recover from the hustle and bustle in Monaco. Today we're going to Barcelona, where the next Bulls' Party on Sunday ( from 3 p.m. in the Sport24 live ticker ) is ready.

oe24: Max Verstappen could catch up with Ayrton Senna with the 41st win in the next two races. Do you see parallels?

Helmut Marko: I compared Max to Senna a few years ago and was laughed at. The know-it-alls from back then are slowly running out of arguments. Max has not only developed as a racing driver, but also as a personality. The incredible qualifying lap he put in in Monaco on Saturday is already coming close to Senna. Max is the best in all conditions.

oe24: Did you expect more resistance from your teammates in the fight for the World Championship?

Marko: That's settled. But in truth, Max never saw any serious danger in Perez.

oe24: And now it's off to Barcelona...

Marko: We're usually even stronger there. Last year we struggled with Ferrari – but they get it all wrong, and it's easy to make mistakes in F1. I'm sorry that the tension is lost. As you can see, TV ratings on Sky are falling dramatically. You have to watch that. Fortunately, the boom in Austria is unbroken, as the ticket sales show (see right, ed.).

oe24: Let's take a look at the upcoming GP weekend...

Marko: Barcelona shows how good a car really is. It says: if a car works on this route, it will also work on 80 percent of the rest.

oe24: Although Mercedes is optimistic that the updates that were actually intended for the canceled Imola GP will take effect. What do you expect?

Marko: Maybe they'll ignite a super rocket. But it would be a huge leap if they made it to our level. And then they have to continuously keep up.

oe24: Critics say that the perfection of Verstappen and Red Bull is destroying F1...

Marko: Please don't blame us for not being able to further develop their cars.

[Sieper]

Max admits it's the car.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verst ... -shoulder/

Amazing, Max makes a kind comment about Lewis but you see it as another opportunity to start another my drivers is bestest troll attempt. We won’t bite here as you have seen and if you have nothing positive to contribute, why contribute at all? You don’t see us RBR fans doing that in the Mercedes team thread.

He also says you can't win without a good car. Exactly what we all know and what people were constantly saying about Hamilton a few years ago. So where's the issue?

He literally only says “Max admits it’s the car”. He doesn’t also say anything.

[JordanMugen]

Max admits it's the car.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verst ... -shoulder/

The tier one drivers (Verstappen, Leclerc, Russell, Hamilton, Alonso, maybe Norris) are at a similar level. It's a shame that Russell and Hamilton weren't paired in 2020 & 2021 to allow for two and three way WDC contests respectively.

Red Bull did have a tier one + tier 1/1B lineup before, but it's a shame that Ricciardo decided to move on. They went through Gasly and Albon (both too slow), before settling on Perez as a steady backup driver.

A team should always opt to pair the best two drivers it can find! Of course Hamilton is ruled out by Red Bull for other reasons (past collisions with Verstappen and likelihood of further collisions with Verstappen).

Verstappen + Leclerc however could be quite a good potential lineup for Red Bull Racing! They seem to be much more amicable rivals and could be a great pairing!

I think Red Bull Racing will also consider Norris and Piastri. If Piastri is as good as he seems (and he will be a free agent in 2025 thanks to getting out of that improperly drafted long-term Alpine proposal), then Piastri could be a solid choice IMO.

He literally only says “Max admits it’s the car”. He doesn’t also say anything.

Of course. Those saying "Hamilton = GOAT" were tiresome in 2020: did they also say "Lewis admits it's the car", I don't recall.

As I say above, a more reasonable position is:
"the tier one drivers are at similar level, who comes out ahead when they are paired seems to be a matter of luck and circumstance" (e.g., Lauda and Prost with 1 WDC each, Prost and Senna with 1 WDC each, Alonso and Hamilton tied on WDC points)."

Anyone who is sure that Leclerc can beat Verstappen in a RBR or that Verstappen can beat Leclerc in a RBR is, IMO, lying. (Same for those who say so confidently "Russell would have had no chance to win the 2020 WDC, it doesn't matter that Russell didn't get the promotion".)

On the evidence we have, we might expect Leclerc to be fast but to crash a little more than Verstappen but who knows maybe the RBR is a little easier to control than the Ferrari? It should be very, very close between Leclerc and Verstappen in the same car!

As (or if) Mr. Leclerc gets frustrated with the efforts of Scuderia Ferrari, he very well may make the trip to sign a contract at a certain Milton-Keynes factory.

[AR3-GP]

As you can see, TV ratings on Sky are falling dramatically. You have to watch that. Fortunately, the boom in Austria is unbroken, as the ticket sales show (see right, ed.).

[Just_a_fan]

Max admits it's the car.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verst ... -shoulder/

A team should always opt to pair the best two drivers it can find! Of course Hamilton is ruled out by Red Bull for other reasons (past collisions with Verstappen and likelihood of further collisions with Verstappen).

Nothing to do with collisions and everything to do with a focus on one driver. That's Red Bull's MO, just as it was Ferrari's in the early 2000s. No problem with that, but don't dress it as anything else.

Of course. Those saying "Hamilton = GOAT" were tiresome in 2020: did they also say "Lewis admits it's the car", I don't recall.

Anyone that claims any driver is the GOAT is an idiot, frankly.

All drivers need a top car to shine - look at Fernando. He's been "nowhere" for years and suddenly is "up there". What's changed? The car.

Fangio changed teams like we change our underwear, in order to get the best car. He even did it mid season. What other proof does one need?

There are greats, but even they are only great because they had the right tools available to them.

Lewis is a great. Max is too. And so is Fernando. Others have signs of greatness but have yet to be able to show it fully. Anything else is media-driven BS.

[Just_a_fan]

Amazing, Max makes a kind comment about Lewis but you see it as another opportunity to start another my drivers is bestest troll attempt. We won’t bite here as you have seen and if you have nothing positive to contribute, why contribute at all? You don’t see us RBR fans doing that in the Mercedes team thread.

He also says you can't win without a good car. Exactly what we all know and what people were constantly saying about Hamilton a few years ago. So where's the issue?

He literally only says “Max admits it’s the car”. He doesn’t also say anything.

But links to the whole article so others can check the context. Just quoting Max in a comment would be disingenuous, linking to the article isn't, even if he only picks one issue to comment on. It is a bit silly of him, I agree.

[organic]

Can we go back to the topic of the team/ RB at Spanish GP please

What are we expecting in the way of upgrades? Seems just to be the floor edge from what I've seen so far

[Sieper]

This is why I call it trolling by PZ, as civilized as we are discussing it, a statement like “it’s just the car” is Only meant to trigger an offtopic response. So now back to the topic again, the redbull team.

I wonder if they have a real update, Marko spilled the beans imho, Max downplayed it but at least the floor fences have been altered.

[Just_a_fan]

Can we go back to the topic of the team/ RB at Spanish GP please

What are we expecting in the way of upgrades? Seems just to be the floor edge from what I've seen so far

I would expect them to do the minimum necessary upgrades this year. With the resource limits they are under (and will be under next year too), they need to keep as much available as possible for the 24 car. As they have pace in their pocket at the moment, and are likely to win the title even if others make some advances, throwing money at this year's car would be a waste of money.

Of course, if another team suddenly adds half a second to their car this weekend, Red Bull will have to respond, but is that likely?

[organic]

I wonder if they have a real update, Marko spilled the beans imho, Max downplayed it but at least the floor fences have been altered.

What did Max say? That there are new fences?

If fences are confirmed to be new then fences & floor edge wing have both been modified

I would expect them to do the minimum necessary upgrades this year. With the resource limits they are under (and will be under next year too), they need to keep as much available as possible for the 24 car. As they have pace in their pocket at the moment, and are likely to win the title even if others make some advances, throwing money at this year's car would be a waste of money.

Of course, if another team suddenly adds half a second to their car this weekend, Red Bull will have to respond, but is that likely?

Yes agreed. I don't know how exactly development under the cost cap can be adjusted to favour the following season, but obviously RB must do this.

I think Ferrari is the only risk in terms of making a huge leap. They are close to RB already on Saturday. If with the new direction they don't lose much performance but add a lot of consistency in performance, they may suddenly find a lot of time..

[Sieper]

Floor edge, I meant when I said fence. There I saw a small update, but perhaps that means there is more. Verstappen said this (Dutch language link)

https://www.gpfans.com/nl/f1-nieuws/108 ... thousiast/

[AR3-GP]

Floor edge, I meant when I said fence. There I saw a small update, but perhaps that means there is more. Verstappen said this (Dutch language link)

https://www.gpfans.com/nl/f1-nieuws/108 ... thousiast/

On the other hand, Max had never even seen the RB19 until the silverstone shakedown...