Is the RB19 Dominant?

[organic]

At this point it's possibly the best car ever.

McLaren in 1988 had senna and prost and that's the only season that a car has led more % of laps than the rb19 after 7 rounds. If we had verstappen and Hamilton in the rb19s the % would surely be 100%.

This 96.2% was achieved with 3 Q1 exits and 1 Q2 exit as well. So it hasn't been going completely smoothly in the process.



Another measure of it would be the advantage relative to the field spread which here is enormous for the modern era.

[JordanMugen]

The question is out there whether RedBull are even turning up 100% of the their true pace in a way to avoid unwanted attention from the FIA.

This only applies if there is (are) some specific thing(s) on the Red Bull which the FIA could seek to target or ban (e.g., Renault mass-damper). Fans are not aware of any of these at the moment.

[peewon]

At this point it's possibly the best car ever.

McLaren in 1988 had senna and prost and that's the only season that a car has led more % of laps than the rb19 after 7 rounds. If we had verstappen and Hamilton in the rb19s the % would surely be 100%.

This 96.2% was achieved with 3 Q1 exits and 1 Q2 exit as well. So it hasn't been going completely smoothly in the process.

https://i.imgur.com/iZEXbvx.jpeg

Another measure of it would be the advantage relative to the field spread which here is enormous for the modern era.

% of laps lead is a very contextual stat and definitely not the first one Id use to determine how dominant a car is. The average gap to the nearest rival at full beans is more indicative of that.

[Farnborough]

The question is out there whether RedBull are even turning up 100% of the their true pace in a way to avoid unwanted attention from the FIA.

This only applies if there is (are) some specific thing(s) on the Red Bull which the FIA could seek to target or ban (e.g., Renault mass-damper). Fans are not aware of any of these at the moment.

With the combined effects of cost cap, engine/gearbox reliability from defined (non penalised) usage period etc, then this would seem a sensible approach to running the cars.
It makes it a reliability formula if there's not significant challenge from competitors.

The opposite, Mercedes 2021 with their engine strategies on lifing, performance over durability etc, just another way through the existing power unit rules in regard to power output balanced against diminished penalties for more engine changes.

[organic]

At this point it's possibly the best car ever.

McLaren in 1988 had senna and prost and that's the only season that a car has led more % of laps than the rb19 after 7 rounds. If we had verstappen and Hamilton in the rb19s the % would surely be 100%.

This 96.2% was achieved with 3 Q1 exits and 1 Q2 exit as well. So it hasn't been going completely smoothly in the process.

https://i.imgur.com/iZEXbvx.jpeg

Another measure of it would be the advantage relative to the field spread which here is enormous for the modern era.

% of laps lead is a very contextual stat and definitely not the first one Id use to determine how dominant a car is. The average gap to the nearest rival at full beans is more indicative of that.

Average gap in quali or race? If it's the race then that won't take into account the fact that RB are extending a SC/pitstop gap and then cruising every weekend. The true pace is not seen unless they are pushed and that isn't happening given nobody else has the car to do that in race trim.

And the average gap in qualifying isn't indicative of true performance in the current regs tbh

[ValeVida46]

And the average gap in qualifying isn't indicative of true performance in the current regs tbh

100% this.

Jock Clear of Ferrari noted this too.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... /10469634/

At certain venues last year this was also true, particularly the second half of the season with Ferrari managing to outqualify Red Bull or get very close timewise, only to find a large deficit in the race.
This could also explain why Ferrari also make some odd pit calls at times. With the car being unable to perform on certain compounds or perform as expected only to drop off quickly on certain compounds relative to Red Bull and others.
This then has a knock on effect as to what strategy can be deployed and when. It's also a moving target, as at some venues it seems inverse of this, Austria last year being one. They nailed the strategy there oddly enough.
Not excusing Ferrari's questionable strategies, but this certainly adds to their problem.

[peewon]

% of laps lead is a very contextual stat and definitely not the first one Id use to determine how dominant a car is. The average gap to the nearest rival at full beans is more indicative of that.

Average gap in quali or race? If it's the race then that won't take into account the fact that RB are extending a SC/pitstop gap and then cruising every weekend. The true pace is not seen unless they are pushed and that isn't happening given nobody else has the car to do that in race trim.

And the average gap in qualifying isn't indicative of true performance in the current regs tbh

Ultimately it has to be race pace. I would say Jeddah is a good indicator because the Bulls were pushing each other. You can also get snapshots of performance in early parts of the races. The "cruising" issue applies to all dominant teams. We know Mercedes was turning their engines down massively in the early part of hybrid era.

[napoleon1981]

I think we have seen the true pace quite often.

Max and Checo were gloves off in Jeddah.
There was no holding back in Baku
There was no holding back in Miami (particularly from Checo).
There was no holding back in Barcelona by Checo given that he finished 4th.

We have seen the true RB pace more often than not. Its just that Mercedes fans are used to their team holding back a ton, so now that they are not winning, others must be doing this.

[cheeRS]

% of laps lead is a very contextual stat and definitely not the first one Id use to determine how dominant a car is. The average gap to the nearest rival at full beans is more indicative of that.

Average gap in quali or race? If it's the race then that won't take into account the fact that RB are extending a SC/pitstop gap and then cruising every weekend. The true pace is not seen unless they are pushed and that isn't happening given nobody else has the car to do that in race trim.

And the average gap in qualifying isn't indicative of true performance in the current regs tbh

Ultimately it has to be race pace. I would say Jeddah is a good indicator because the Bulls were pushing each other. You can also get snapshots of performance in early parts of the races. The "cruising" issue applies to all dominant teams. We know Mercedes was turning their engines down massively in the early part of hybrid era.

This is all getting lost in the weeds and trying to find a measure/statistic that fits an opinion.

Dominance in sport = % (or number) or wins over a season and/or championship win. Gap to rivals in race or Q is useful, but the de facto measure of dominance is only calculated over a season. For a team sport, the 'season' metric is confirmed by a championship. For instance, which basketball team was the most dominant in the 1990s? Clearly it was the Bulls, who won 6/10 championships. It wasn't the team who won by the most points, or the team that scored the most in the first quarter, etc.

For F1, 'everyone' knows that constructor/car dominance is judged by race wins over a season. Anything else is either cherry picked, or, at best, a corroborating metric. % of laps lead is a corroborating metric.

[organic]

Eh even in Miami they weren't pushing the engines/gearboxes/deployment. RB have gone 7 rounds on the 1st engine which does free practices as well as races.. whilst others have taken their 3rd engine at the 8th round.

There will always be obfuscating factors when judging dominance, but the fastest team wants always to be leading the race. It puts you in the best position to win at every time. And only a very dominant team can choose to keep the lead at pitstop phases as they have no fear of undercuts.

This is why I would look at it as more useful than race pace difference. Race pace gaps are a function of the regulations and what is permitted. Engines are frozen and roughly on par whilst the freedom to develop is curtailed in this era both in terms of budget (capped) and scope (strict aero rules). So I think purely looking at relative race pace and comparing between eras will partly reflect the regulations rather than just the dominance itself

[napoleon1981]

Eh even in Miami they weren't pushing the engines/gearboxes/deployment. RB have gone 7 rounds on the 1st engine which does free practices as well as races.. whilst others have taken their 3rd engine at the 8th round.

Isnt that just staying in the regulations? Others are dropping the ball. BTW they are chewing through gearboxes, i believe Max is on his last before a penalty, so they are pushing that aspect beyond what the rules expect in terms of reliability. As for the engine, it has been well described that the Honda doesnt suffer alot of degradation, but they cant run it much harder either. Its just an engine that performs steadily through its usage cycle.

[PlatinumZealot]

RedBull are truly turning down their engines. Explained by Alpha Tauri's normal engine wear.

I think we are looking at the most dominant car in history. I cannot see them being headed at any point this year. Only a God can beat them fair and square in another car.

[napoleon1981]

RedBull are truly turning down their engines. Explained by Alpha Tauri's normal engine wear.

I think we are looking at the most dominant car in history. I cannot see them being headed at any point this year. Only a God can beat them fair and square in another car.

What is Alpha Tauris wear? If you are eluting to scooping in a new engine, that doesn't mean anything. Teams have different philosophies about getting parts in circulation. Are the first engines unusable?

[napoleon1981]

Is his not an accurate list? https://www.f1-fansite.com/2023-f1-seas ... -elements/
seems like all teams are on engine 2, with the exception of Renault.

[peewon]

Eh even in Miami they weren't pushing the engines/gearboxes/deployment. RB have gone 7 rounds on the 1st engine which does free practices as well as races.. whilst others have taken their 3rd engine at the 8th round.

There will always be obfuscating factors when judging dominance, but the fastest team wants always to be leading the race. It puts you in the best position to win at every time. And only a very dominant team can choose to keep the lead at pitstop phases as they have no fear of undercuts.

This is why I would look at it as more useful than race pace difference. Race pace gaps are a function of the regulations and what is permitted. Engines are frozen and roughly on par whilst the freedom to develop is curtailed in this era both in terms of budget (capped) and scope (strict aero rules). So I think purely looking at relative race pace and comparing between eras will partly reflect the regulations rather than just the dominance itself

Yes, but that stat can also be easily muddied by mitigating circumstances. The 3 races that Mercedes failed to win in 2014 were due to mechanical issues (Canada) or two drivers coming together (Spa) or a combination of the two (Hungary). So it doent mean that their competitors were any loser to them on performance. Mercs routinely pulled out 1+secs/lap, sometime even 2, on race starts and restarts. On pure performance they were definitely higher than RB19. The tires of the mid 2010s also degraded more quickly and had a more dramatic cliff, leading to more varied strategies which meant more likelihood of out of sequence cars leading a GP. If RB has flawless reliability throughout the season then we can recalibrate the argument to include that.

Merc engine was 50-70HP up on everyone. There is no way any aero advantage can ever make that much of a difference in today's regulations. Then the engine token system baked in that advantage for 3 years meaning it was impossible to catch them. The longevity of the dominance also should matter here.