2023 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 30 - July 02

[Mchamilton]

Couldn't they make the outside kerbs lower/ off camber? Then current F1 cars would heavily ride on the plank and it would simply be slower. Might be acceptable for motoGP as well.

Quite likely to cause big crashes too

[codetower]

I was wondering why he did another attempt, but this explains it of course. As a result, he now has no new softs for the Sprint Shootout left, in case it stays dry:

https://i.imgur.com/ZnzKuLX.png

This will be interesting for the shootout tomorrow. Neither Sainz, Hamilton nor Alonzo have any new softs available

Doesn't need to be this "high-tech". All you need is to set up some hight speed cameras running at about 240fps, and a staff of about 20 doing nothing but monitoring the curbs during qualifying. The problem is they probably have a staff of about 4 guys trying to keep track of every car on every turn. They can get it correct, they just can't provide feedback quick enough.

Wat. A contact switch is not high tech compared to high speed cameras and requires no 20 man team of reviewers. A downside is, you need a lot of switches, but I like the carnival atmosphere a string of lights might provide.

Haha! yeah, not really high tech... but they still need to install those, wire everything in, set up the software to read read and analyze the data, all the testing involved... The cameras they likely already have, have you seen some of those slow motion videos of the cars riding the curbs, when the tyres are shaking? They just need to increase the staff a bit for this purpose alone I believe. 10, 15, 20 cars lapping at the same time, queuing up the videos back to back to be reviewed. I imagine the backlog is why there is a delay in getting a verdict out.

[AR3-GP]

Two cars in the same corner and in the vicinity of the sensors. How do you know which one tripped the contact sensor?

It would depend on the circuit layout (electrical circuit). If they are all in series this might be a problem. Otherwise they are independent, each sending a signal or lighting an LED.

Doesn't need to be this "high-tech". All you need is to set up some hight speed cameras running at about 240fps, and a staff of about 20 doing nothing but monitoring the curbs during qualifying. The problem is they probably have a staff of about 4 guys trying to keep track of every car on every turn. They can get it correct, they just can't provide feedback quick enough.

Exactly. This is highlighted by the Sainz issue today. He now has no new sets of soft tires for tomorrow's sprint qualifying and sprint race.

Nevertheless, staffing 20 people to stare at cameras can still be flawed. Can we trust these people to reliably judge every single offense? The human eye has limitations in its resolution even with the best camera. What if these people make mistakes. There can be razor thin margins here. This is exactly why Tennis moved from linespeople who called balls in and out, to automated line calling equipment. It makes it more fair to remove the human element.

What if a team discovers after the session that an official made a mistake with the footage? It will create quite the mess.

Just drop it all and put some grass at the edge of the track. It's a passive, low-tech solution that is self policing. These are the best kinds of solutions.

[Juzh]

But Ferrari’s Charles Leclerc would like a return to one of the previous solutions at the Red Bull Ring, by using the kerb as the cut-off for track limits rather than the white line (which is no longer possible because of the standardised policing at every track).

“This track is particularly tricky, especially Turn 10, because the nature of the corner is that the car is getting lighter in the middle of the corner, and then however the car is positioned there, it has a big influence on the exit,” Leclerc said.

“And from where we are, so low in the car, we cannot see anything.

“I think the helmet cam is very representative of what we are seeing, and we are not seeing at all the white lines.

“Hopefully in the future in tracks like these we can have a bit more margin, and that they understand that from the car it’s just impossible to judge.”

Leclerc and Verstappen felt other parts of the lap would also benefit from specific treatment, such as Leclerc suggesting a wider white line at Turn 4 and Verstappen feeling that track limits need not be applied at Turn 1 as the yellow sausage kerb on the exit slows cars down anyway.

Leclerc’s Ferrari team-mate Carlos Sainz agreed that the visibility of the white line at Turn 10 is a problem because the drivers also cannot feel it in the car, and would prefer a “natural limit” like the gravel that exists at other corners around the lap.

Sainz also raised a separate issue from qualifying, which is that the laps were being deleted – or reviewed and not deleted – too slowly in a live session.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/take-my- ... imits-ire/

Oh look, drivers talking some common sense, unlike rabid FIA with their holier than thou attitudes measuring millimetres over white lines, and some people here thinking world is black and white and context doesn't exist.

[dans79]

Gravel is not the answer, Max even said that today.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/06/30/ver ... erstappen/

“For us putting gravel there is fine, but for a bike it’s a bit different. So we need to think about maybe a different solution.”

many accurate technical ways exist to determine if a car has left the track. The fact that any given might fail, is a strawman argument. When something is important you have redundancy, in some cases several layers of it.

[dialtone]

But Ferrari’s Charles Leclerc would like a return to one of the previous solutions at the Red Bull Ring, by using the kerb as the cut-off for track limits rather than the white line (which is no longer possible because of the standardised policing at every track).

“This track is particularly tricky, especially Turn 10, because the nature of the corner is that the car is getting lighter in the middle of the corner, and then however the car is positioned there, it has a big influence on the exit,” Leclerc said.

“And from where we are, so low in the car, we cannot see anything.

“I think the helmet cam is very representative of what we are seeing, and we are not seeing at all the white lines.

“Hopefully in the future in tracks like these we can have a bit more margin, and that they understand that from the car it’s just impossible to judge.”

Leclerc and Verstappen felt other parts of the lap would also benefit from specific treatment, such as Leclerc suggesting a wider white line at Turn 4 and Verstappen feeling that track limits need not be applied at Turn 1 as the yellow sausage kerb on the exit slows cars down anyway.

Leclerc’s Ferrari team-mate Carlos Sainz agreed that the visibility of the white line at Turn 10 is a problem because the drivers also cannot feel it in the car, and would prefer a “natural limit” like the gravel that exists at other corners around the lap.

Sainz also raised a separate issue from qualifying, which is that the laps were being deleted – or reviewed and not deleted – too slowly in a live session.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/take-my- ... imits-ire/

Oh look, drivers talking some common sense, unlike rabid FIA with their holier than thou attitudes measuring millimetres over white lines, and some people here thinking world is black and white and context doesn't exist.

Lol and yet all those drivers set times within the lines.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Juzh]

It would depend on the circuit layout (electrical circuit). If they are all in series this might be a problem. Otherwise they are independent, each sending a signal or lighting an LED.

Doesn't need to be this "high-tech". All you need is to set up some hight speed cameras running at about 240fps, and a staff of about 20 doing nothing but monitoring the curbs during qualifying. The problem is they probably have a staff of about 4 guys trying to keep track of every car on every turn. They can get it correct, they just can't provide feedback quick enough.

Exactly. This is highlighted by the Sainz issue today. He now has no new sets of soft tires for tomorrow's sprint qualifying and sprint race.

Lets not forget perez burning 2 sets of soft tires in Q3 last year when FIA needed half an hour to determine whether he was over the line or not.

[Juzh]

https://the-race.com/formula-1/take-my- ... imits-ire/

Oh look, drivers talking some common sense, unlike rabid FIA with their holier than thou attitudes measuring millimetres over white lines, and some people here thinking world is black and white and context doesn't exist.

Lol and yet all those drivers set times within the lines.

So what? Just because you do something you're being forced to doesn't make it necessarily the right thing in broader sense.

[dialtone]

Oh look, drivers talking some common sense, unlike rabid FIA with their holier than thou attitudes measuring millimetres over white lines, and some people here thinking world is black and white and context doesn't exist.

Lol and yet all those drivers set times within the lines.

So what? Just because you do something you're being forced to doesn't make it necessarily the right thing in broader sense.

It doesn't make it wrong either.

What you people are discussing is the implemetation, this year it was miles ahead of last year, huge improvement to be celebrated not called a fiasco.

[dans79]

Oh look, drivers talking some common sense, unlike rabid FIA with their holier than thou attitudes measuring millimetres over white lines, and some people here thinking world is black and white and context doesn't exist.

Lol and yet all those drivers set times within the lines.

So what? Just because you do something you're being forced to doesn't make it necessarily the right thing in broader sense.

Because they are the rules, it doesn't matter if driver XYZ thinks it's hard. The problem with the FIA, is they spend far to much time listening to fans and drivers whine, instead of rigidly enforcing the rules. The FIA's stance should be follow the rules or don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out.

[Sieper]

Even if they do that, and who can be against consistency, the fact that it takes different time to decide is still very unfair. So it still is not black and white, it would be that if every driver got the yes/no decision at the same time interval. Then everyone has an equal chance to recover and that would be fair.

[bluechris]

All the tracks simply need to reduce the curbs and put 1 meter of grass then tarmac again. You go out you loose time or you spin but you are safe. No gravel or anything like old days.
End of story.

[Just_a_fan]

Max might win this title with six or seven races to spare.

Best way to kill the excitement.

Imagine you'd paid top dollar to host a possible title decider, only to find it was decided weeks ago.

Sell that, LM.

[Just_a_fan]

Now drivers dont actually push, they just look for that 3cm line, game of chicken is all it is.

Sorry, did you watch qualifying? The drivers were pushing and many lost laps because of track limits.

The skilled drivers avoided penalties by avoiding the over-step. I know, shocking.

[Rodak]

Couldn't they make the outside kerbs lower/ off camber? Then current F1 cars would heavily ride on the plank and it would simply be slower. Might be acceptable for motoGP as well.

+1 This idea.

Real-time penalty for exceeding the limits of the track.

Real time punishment is especially important for the races. While some may think this situation where drivers simply have their lap deleted in qualy is sufficient, drivers are rarely facing consequences for exceeding track limits in races. They get a few warnings before they get a "black flag", but what if a driver waits until the last lap to break the track limits in order to gain an extra tenth to stay just out of the DRS gap? Should a race be decided like this?

it would make more sense for track limits to always slow the driver down so that they are punished when they make mistakes and that they cannot strategically "use their strikes" without consequence.

How about two meters of grass?