McLaren MCL60

[f1rules]

Im really positive about this upgrade, not cause the result, but simply because of the rational/pragmatic approach behind, something mclaren lacked greatly in my opinion, they obviously tried to get the best from rbs deep undercut and am’s waterslide, and they managed to combine that in a rather agressive looking solution, even the hotair outlet got a makeover, as did the halo now merging into vertical flow conditioners, there is just much more attention to detail and we havent seen the underside of the floor yet, now the only thing i hope theyll bring this year is the anti dive to gain experience with it for next year, as all interviews suggest its something that needs finetuning to get the best of it
Also, in my opinion its good they follow the trends, they need a new baseline, and then when the new tools are operationel together with the new personel arriving, and Stellas new filosofi of bringing ideas forward, im sure they will bring own solutions in the future

[MTudor]

How much of a differentiator are the sidepods? Yes they help and they need to work with the package but my understanding from comments from many teams, including Mercedes recently, is that the sidepods aren't much of a differentiator. Mercedes specifically stating that their time wasn't found from the sidepods and that the significant change did not represent significant time found, it was just a bit more optimal.

The floor is where the geometry is so car specific that you can't really copy other peoples designs and this is where I am more concerned about whether we have found the time and where we have focussed our innovation.

The sidepods act like skirts in the 80's and they direct the air to the floor by sealing it,that's my understanding.

[Swed3121]

How much of a differentiator are the sidepods? Yes they help and they need to work with the package but my understanding from comments from many teams, including Mercedes recently, is that the sidepods aren't much of a differentiator. Mercedes specifically stating that their time wasn't found from the sidepods and that the significant change did not represent significant time found, it was just a bit more optimal.

The floor is where the geometry is so car specific that you can't really copy other peoples designs and this is where I am more concerned about whether we have found the time and where we have focussed our innovation.

The sidepods act like skirts in the 80's and they direct the air to the floor by sealing it,that's my understanding.

Without wishing to be disparaging, Mercedes would have the most to gain from saying the sidepods have little effect.
In reality, they likely offer at least some advantage, even if it is only that the Downwash design allows other elements to function better. Otherwise the teams would not have converged so quickly on the RBR/AM design

[f1rules]

Read the many articles, just recently fallows, alison where asked and they said indepently not the biggest differentiator but combined with the floor the impact was bigger, so as with everything on a f1 car its the whole concept and it plays a role otherwise people would not change

[Marble]

Comparative images of the new package :
Sidepods, side pods entry, floor, engine cover, mirrors, halo :

[mwillems]

How much of a differentiator are the sidepods? Yes they help and they need to work with the package but my understanding from comments from many teams, including Mercedes recently, is that the sidepods aren't much of a differentiator. Mercedes specifically stating that their time wasn't found from the sidepods and that the significant change did not represent significant time found, it was just a bit more optimal.

The floor is where the geometry is so car specific that you can't really copy other peoples designs and this is where I am more concerned about whether we have found the time and where we have focussed our innovation.

The sidepods act like skirts in the 80's and they direct the air to the floor by sealing it,that's my understanding.

Without wishing to be disparaging, Mercedes would have the most to gain from saying the sidepods have little effect.
In reality, they likely offer at least some advantage, even if it is only that the Downwash design allows other elements to function better. Otherwise the teams would not have converged so quickly on the RBR/AM design

I'm not saying there isn't a reason, I'm saying it's not as big a deal as some want to think. And it isn't just Mercedes, Stella has said this and others too. Personally I don't subscribe to the idea that Mercedes would lie about their sidepods either, I don't think they have anything to gain, especially Russell, who would be very honest about these kinds of things. He is most certainly not the kind of guy to push BS for image.

[mclaren111]

More RBR...

[mwillems]

How much of a differentiator are the sidepods? Yes they help and they need to work with the package but my understanding from comments from many teams, including Mercedes recently, is that the sidepods aren't much of a differentiator. Mercedes specifically stating that their time wasn't found from the sidepods and that the significant change did not represent significant time found, it was just a bit more optimal.

The floor is where the geometry is so car specific that you can't really copy other peoples designs and this is where I am more concerned about whether we have found the time and where we have focussed our innovation.

The sidepods act like skirts in the 80's and they direct the air to the floor by sealing it,that's my understanding.

I've just realised you've deleted some of the quotes so my text looks like yours.
Everything bar the last line around sidepods sealing the floor is from my post on the last page and the final line is your reply.

Incidentally, sidepods now will deal outwash from the tyres and push air down the the diffuser and won't seal the floor. That is done using the tunnels and by using the floor to generate vortices to further seal the floor.

It's OK, but it makes it seem as if they are following instead of leading with their own ideas. In theory, that would make it impossible for McLaren to catch those two teams as they will (presumably) always be a step behind?

Unless this is just a stepping stone before original McLaren ideas are introduced on the next upgrade?

You can see where the original radiator inlet was (lower down). I wonder why McLaren did not initially place the inlet as high as possible for the largest undercut, but instead have only done so now? What were the benefits of the previous McLaren design over this current design and why have McLaren supposed the positives of the higher inlet now outweigh the negatives?

Ferrari had their original idea and they ditched it, Mercedes had one and ditched, Williams had one and ditched it, Alpine had theirs and they changed it, Haas had one and changed it, also AMR... To me it looks like RedBull was spot on right from the start and majority of the field is copying what they came up with last year allready. Every single team above tried their own version of sidepods last year and they all more or less failed, with Ferrari being the most succesfull. And all implemented some kind of RbR style in the end.

How much of a differentiator are the sidepods? Yes they help and they need to work with the package but my understanding from comments from many teams, including Mercedes recently, is that the sidepods aren't much of a differentiator. Mercedes specifically stating that their time wasn't found from the sidepods and that the significant change did not represent significant time found, it was just a bit more optimal.

The floor is where the geometry is so car specific that you can't really copy other peoples designs and this is where I am more concerned about whether we have found the time and where we have focussed our innovation.

Somebody mentioned a new rear wing soon, but I think we've already had it. I'm expecting new front wing and diffuser and possibly some new suspension and some of the pieces around it.

[mwillems]

How much of a differentiator are the sidepods? Yes they help and they need to work with the package but my understanding from comments from many teams, including Mercedes recently, is that the sidepods aren't much of a differentiator. Mercedes specifically stating that their time wasn't found from the sidepods and that the significant change did not represent significant time found, it was just a bit more optimal.

The floor is where the geometry is so car specific that you can't really copy other peoples designs and this is where I am more concerned about whether we have found the time and where we have focussed our innovation.

The sidepods act like skirts in the 80's and they direct the air to the floor by sealing it,that's my understanding.

Without wishing to be disparaging, Mercedes would have the most to gain from saying the sidepods have little effect.
In reality, they likely offer at least some advantage, even if it is only that the Downwash design allows other elements to function better. Otherwise the teams would not have converged so quickly on the RBR/AM design

You were in fact replying to me

See above

Edit: The link has been deleted, but essentially Alisson was stating that yes the sidepods provide downwash, but they aren't where the time is found and they are not a big deal in this formula, and this is the point I was making in reply to someone saying that they were not seeing innovation in the sidepods and that Mclaren would forever play catchup just copying teams. This got lost as the quotes got wrecked.

You don't need to be innovative with the sidepods. I didn't say they don't provide benefit. They just aren't a differentiator or that big a deal. Copying them is fine if someone has the best solution. Other areas of the car need "The Mclaren Touch" in order for us to push ahead. Looking at the sidepods to see if we are being innovative is totally missing the point.

Sadly in this formula it is much harder now to find the innovation and it is difficult for us armchair experts to find it as more of it is under the surface.

[hollus]

No Red-Bull centric posts or RB-vs-Mercedes centric posts in this thread, thanks.
Comparisons are OK, but please make the point explicitly. Many posts have been deleted.
In this thread: focus on this car, this year, as usual.

[f1rules]

@mwillems
you did read fallows statements also?

Edit
Great work adminstrator… to delete an article casting knowledge on one of the updated areas on the 60…

[mwillems]

@mwillems
you did read fallows statements also?

Edit
Great work adminstrator… to delete an article casting knowledge on one of the updated areas on the 60…

Yes I read the article, it is a big feature, in conjunction with everything else. But not on it's own, is exactly what I am saying. The Sidepod is not a big differentiator but you can ruin the flow if you don't do it right, just like every other part on the car.

But doing it right is fairly obvious and singular now for the Sidepods and the point of these replies around sidepods was never "is there time in the sidepods" and at no point was anything from me saying that there is no time in the sidepods.

The point was that the sidepods are not the place right now for a fan to find innovation, in response to another user saying that because there's no innovation on the sidepods we are copy and pasting and destined to always be behind.

sidepods are not the differentiator nor representative of Mclarens innovation but nobody can disagree with Dan Fallows assertion that in terms of flow tuning they are very important. They are the single biggest piece of Carbon that is taking air to the rear. But nobody is going to become faster to any significant degree through sidepods, they're the support act now, not as important as they were pre-ground effect.

[vorticism]

Filip Cleeren

[proteus]

https://cdn-5.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... ail-1.webp
Filip Cleeren

Someone was doubtful about importance of sidepods in overall performance, well this picture to me shows all it has to show how these deep channels lead the air on top of the diffuser between wheels and the exhaust.

[_cerber1]