2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[zibby43]

I find the flip flopping on the significance of sidepods really amusing. One week its all about the floor and you could put a potato as a sidepod and another week its RB pods will give you at least 4 tenths + 5 inches. (hyperbole)

lol.

It’s probably because it’s more nuanced than just the visual bodywork itself, and more components of the car are involved in making everything work cohesively.

But there is now a clear trend of cars changing that area of the car to look like another team and then improving their pace quite drastically. It’s beyond the point of coincidence.

Both McLaren cars getting the upgrade and then leapfrogging several other teams was a pretty strong indicator.

[AR3-GP]

Hamilton is not being subtle. He wants a Red Bull. Reading between the lines, it sounds like Mercedes are still going their own way. Toto also said something very interesting:

“And to be honest, it doesn’t matter because only the stopwatch counts. And this is what I guess Lewis was referring to. This kind of design seems to be a good direction. But this is easier said than done.

“I think each of us had bodywork that looked like the Red Bull in the tunnel, and it didn’t come up in performance.

“So you’ve got to leave no stone unturned and maybe look at it again, because another team just found a second in performance.”

He's admitting that they still are not following the RB direction however it may be "worth another look". Curious that when they put the RB in the windtunnel, they are not getting the performance. One could view this as troubling as it would indicate they are missing something if they can't extract anything from it. Allison all but can't stand this question anymore and seems a bit arrogant about it. Supposedly they have only added a mildly down washing sidepod to "rule it out" but they insist it was "never significant" in the first place.

It's just struck me what could be a problem for this car. They have built a car where "the sidepods don't matter". Is that not the problem staring you in the face? How have you managed to build a car that is completely insensitive to the sidepods you are running? On other cars, the sidepod is being used to interact with and enhance the floor in specific ways in addition to reducing drag. The fact that the Mercedes package is seemingly "insensitive" to the sidepod design suggest their car has no strong interaction between their sidepods and the floor. That could be the piece of the puzzle that they are missing.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/hamilton ... e-up-call/

[PlatinumZealot]

Yes it's clear that they are not and McLaren, via Andrea Stella, openly admitted at the start of the season that they missed a trick and will be building their floor like RedBull to feature vertical vortex flow stuctures.

Mercedes should really take a second look and stop being proud.

[Farnborough]

Hamilton is not being subtle. He wants a Red Bull. Reading between the lines, it sounds like Mercedes are still going their own way. Toto also said something very interesting:

“And to be honest, it doesn’t matter because only the stopwatch counts. And this is what I guess Lewis was referring to. This kind of design seems to be a good direction. But this is easier said than done.

“I think each of us had bodywork that looked like the Red Bull in the tunnel, and it didn’t come up in performance.

“So you’ve got to leave no stone unturned and maybe look at it again, because another team just found a second in performance.”

He's admitting that they still are not following the RB direction however it may be "worth another look". Curious that when they put the RB in the windtunnel, they are not getting the performance. One could view this as troubling as it would indicate they are missing something if they can't extract anything from it. Allison all but can't stand this question anymore and seems a bit arrogant about it. Supposedly they have only added a mildly down washing sidepod to "rule it out" but they insist it was "never significant" in the first place.

It's just struck me what could be a problem for this car. They have built a car where "the sidepods don't matter". Is that not the problem staring you in the face? How have you managed to build a car that is completely insensitive to the sidepods you are running? On other cars, the sidepod is being used to interact with and enhance the floor in specific ways in addition to reducing drag. The fact that the Mercedes package is seemingly "insensitive" to the sidepod design suggest their car has no strong interaction between their sidepods and the floor. That could be the piece of the puzzle that they are missing.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/hamilton ... e-up-call/

Agree.

All their numbers, collated research etc, etc, tells them that W13 would be the best solution........and their own assessment of RB type concept doesnt offer them superior performance.........hmmmmmmm.....something amiss there

[Willy]

Imagine if Newey churns out a zero pod for RB20 that is over a second faster than next best car! I don't think it's a good idea to copy Red Bull as they are already probably working on newer concepts. Lewis just wants a fast car, but he is not an engineer to know what works and what doesn't. Mercedes team at factory seems to be under tremendous pressure and heeding to calls from people that they probably shouldn't. Making statements about upgrades and hyping up things should stop. Lewis throwing the team under the bus should stop. It doesn't speak well for himself either. When Schumacher came back to Mercedes and didn't see the results that he expected, he and Brawn went about fixing the problems and we didn't hear Michael getting frustrated and throwing the team under the bus publicly. Toto should take a break from attending races and should spend time in factory to energize his engineers.

Red Bull hasn't introduced any upgrades, but are obviously working at the factory. They probably have upgrades that if they wish to bolt now, might just give another half a second. When RB19 came out, every was amazed that it remained exactly like RB18. No big upgrades despite development having stopped at Summer break for RB18. It's essentially a year now since that car has remained almost same without any noticeable changes. So who knows what Red Bull are cooking in this duration. People need to realise it's a tricky situation to get anywhere close to Red Bull. Intelligent people at Mercedes need a calm atmosphere, not stress.

In a very weird way I think Ross Brawn created a regulations set that quickly undid everything he built at Mercedes. No disrespect for him as he is a genius and I don't think it's intentional. But I can't stop thinking it that way. Toto pushed him out and now he is in exact same situation that Brawn was in 2011 when Red Bull was dominant. Weird coincidence.

[Spoutnik]

[F1Krof]

Does not count for much. They really were the best team on long-runs for Austria how did that turn out?

[Just_a_fan]

Does not count for much. They really were the best team on long-runs for Austria how did that turn out?

It's standard Marko and his ham-fisted attempts at mind games. He's basically saying the McLarens and Ferraris can be dismissed.

[Shrieker]

Lmao Russell more concerned about Ham leapfrogging him, apart from anything else.


Living rent free

[j_ste]

Slower than a McLaren on harder tyres...around Silverstone. Cant PR spin that

[PlatinumZealot]

Great race!
Lucky for Lewis because McLaren had the heels, but the pace was fairly good. Just need more raw downforce now.

[Hammerfist]

Lewis was in awe of the Mclaren through Maggot and Becketts. I believe Peter Windsor reported they had the fastest exit speed out of that complex. Amazing what they've done to that car, which was a backmarker to start the year. Merc the third best car in race pace now. At least we jumped back in front of the Aston Martin. The Ferrari has more raw pace but their tire life is still an issue, although less so.

[ValeVida46]

Slower than a McLaren on harder tyres...around Silverstone. Cant PR spin that

And another Mercedes powered team makes the leap.

But there is an excuse. One glaring excuse that both drivers can use...damn, they are 2nd in WCC. Lets not act like either of them arent pulling their weight. Both have been let down.

Ultimately, every driver on a basic level wants the same thing. Less drag and more downforce...get that and youre golden. Right now, they havent done either

But on the other hand, to be easily beaten by four different teams, is mildly embarrassing.

Not being able to turn the car appears to be something that could hurt performance but I'm just a nobody

Anything constructive you'd like to add, or maybe you noted Mercedes team thread as a bashing exercise?

Remarkable that this thread continues it's trend.

[mkay]

Lewis was in awe of the Mclaren through Maggot and Becketts. I believe Peter Windsor reported they had the fastest exit speed out of that complex. Amazing what they've done to that car, which was a backmarker to start the year. Merc the third best car in race pace now. At least we jumped back in front of the Aston Martin. The Ferrari has more raw pace but their tire life is still an issue, although less so.

Norris on Hards was 10kph faster than Hamilton on softs at the exit of Copse.
Piastri was routinely setting purple in S2 throughout the first stint.

That McLaren generated monster downforce through the high speed stuff.

Lewis made some ground back on the McLarens at the end of the first stint but that's it overall. McLaren was the faster car on merit.

[Sidiamal]

The only consolation for the disappointing result is that Mercedes haven't introduced a real upgrade since Monaco but have still picked up podiums here and there despite the opposition mounting massive upgrades. The hope is that the upgrade package for Hungary/Spa provides the same (or better) boost McLaren got from theirs.