2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Macafangrskg]

Are we weak on exit and in twisty corners in this configuration or this that a reference to the trait we have had prior to the update?

I confess I didn't look at corner exit at Silverstone but we were certainly not great in twisty sections and we weren't always great at corner exit.... but I always thought the team were suggesting this was down to two things, the conditions (Temps, Track Surface) and the cars ability to run off throttle and not all twisty sections are equal. Lando has confirmed that the off throttle issue is much better now anyway due to the cars new Aero.

All I'm saying is, we don't fully know what is weak on this car yet and the strengths and weaknesses are changeable based on circumstances, so Hungry represents its own challenge.

To my amateur eyes the telemetry below doesn't suggest we struggle in the twist sections, in fact in the final two twisty corners before the straight we are on a par or faster than Mercedes. It doesn't men we are perfect and there isn't work to do, but I'd just not call it weak, we don't have enough evidence yet. Not only that, this new car specification has only been tested in cool conditions and with decent track surfaces. So for me it feels quite unkown.

https://i.ibb.co/HKgpR51/Norris-v-Ham.png

Take for example the track at Barcelona, turns 10 throughout 13 were pure pain for us, to clarify I'm talking about twisty turns where you hare not traveling that fast, so comparison to Silverstone is not ideal as this is a track were you carry much more speed and momentum trough the corners.

Ahh OK I get you. So yes we were certainly not great, but this is in many ways a different car now, so I suppose what I'm saying is we can't assume what traits have carried over. In the Silverstone telemetry there are two parts for the track that are twisty, although I'm not sure they require much off throttle, certainly not before the start finish straight. But in the opportunities at low speed corners we had good exit and good minimum speed.

What I'm not sure about was wether that was influenced by the temps and the surface and I think Hungary will be a very good chance to see what flaws the car may have fixed or may still have, but I wouldn't want to say that the car is weak at corner exit or twisty off throttle sections just yet, because so far the data looks promising. But that's just my take, I feel optimistic that this car will work well at Hungary, and well for me is two top ten finishes.

You have to understand the problem that we have with slow turns is not aero.Is mechanical and it is really old .Something like 5 - 7 years old. We carry over it from the previous regulations and mostly has to do with suspension and chassis .The main reason for pull rod suspension choice that we done with this regulations and design choices was to cure it. Because pull rod is really difficult because it create a lot of dirty air and needs a lot of fine tunning. But if you get it right you have better weight distribution and you can have a balance between heating up the tires and maintaining them at the same time. That's why you hear Verstappen especially in FP and between each q1 to q2 and especially q3 complaining. Because they to try to find the balance just right. If you hit this sweet spot your golden

[mwillems]

Take for example the track at Barcelona, turns 10 throughout 13 were pure pain for us, to clarify I'm talking about twisty turns where you hare not traveling that fast, so comparison to Silverstone is not ideal as this is a track were you carry much more speed and momentum trough the corners.

Ahh OK I get you. So yes we were certainly not great, but this is in many ways a different car now, so I suppose what I'm saying is we can't assume what traits have carried over. In the Silverstone telemetry there are two parts for the track that are twisty, although I'm not sure they require much off throttle, certainly not before the start finish straight. But in the opportunities at low speed corners we had good exit and good minimum speed.

What I'm not sure about was wether that was influenced by the temps and the surface and I think Hungary will be a very good chance to see what flaws the car may have fixed or may still have, but I wouldn't want to say that the car is weak at corner exit or twisty off throttle sections just yet, because so far the data looks promising. But that's just my take, I feel optimistic that this car will work well at Hungary, and well for me is two top ten finishes.

You have to understand the problem that we have with slow turns is not aero.Is mechanical and it is really old .Something like 5 - 7 years old. We carry over it from the previous regulations and mostly has to do with suspension and chassis .The main reason for pull rod suspension choice that we done with this regulations and design choices was to cure it. Because pull rod is really difficult because it create a lot of dirty air and needs a lot of fine tunning. But if you get it right you have better weight distribution and you can have a balance between heating up the tires and maintaining them at the same time. That's why you hear Verstappen especially in FP and between each q1 to q2 and especially q3 complaining. Because they to try to find the balance just right. If you hit this sweet spot your golden

It's partly aero as a stalling diffuser even at low speed makes marked difference, it's not all mechanical. And aside from that the team themselves say they have improved low speed corners, just not as much as other areas of the track. Bear in mid also we did update the rear suspension, something we know much less about because it isn't described in the show and tell.

So I say the same, lets wait and see.

[MrGapes]

Ahh OK I get you. So yes we were certainly not great, but this is in many ways a different car now, so I suppose what I'm saying is we can't assume what traits have carried over. In the Silverstone telemetry there are two parts for the track that are twisty, although I'm not sure they require much off throttle, certainly not before the start finish straight. But in the opportunities at low speed corners we had good exit and good minimum speed.

What I'm not sure about was wether that was influenced by the temps and the surface and I think Hungary will be a very good chance to see what flaws the car may have fixed or may still have, but I wouldn't want to say that the car is weak at corner exit or twisty off throttle sections just yet, because so far the data looks promising. But that's just my take, I feel optimistic that this car will work well at Hungary, and well for me is two top ten finishes.

You have to understand the problem that we have with slow turns is not aero.Is mechanical and it is really old .Something like 5 - 7 years old. We carry over it from the previous regulations and mostly has to do with suspension and chassis .The main reason for pull rod suspension choice that we done with this regulations and design choices was to cure it. Because pull rod is really difficult because it create a lot of dirty air and needs a lot of fine tunning. But if you get it right you have better weight distribution and you can have a balance between heating up the tires and maintaining them at the same time. That's why you hear Verstappen especially in FP and between each q1 to q2 and especially q3 complaining. Because they to try to find the balance just right. If you hit this sweet spot your golden

It's partly aero as a stalling diffuser even at low speed makes marked difference, it's not all mechanical. And aside from that the team themselves say they have improved low speed corners, just not as much as other areas of the track. Bear in mid also we did update the rear suspension, something we know much less about because it isn't described in the show and tell.

So I say the same, lets wait and see.

I can't recall which article... but Andrea was quite adamant they were very happy with the mechanics of the car... and that the low speed deficiency is mainly aero related (I think this has been known for a while), I can recall this was a topic back to 2018 in Canada where they were doing a lot of aero correlation work.

I think the suspension and mechanical changes that will come are a stimulus for aerodynamic gain.

[MrGapes]

Some thoughts for Hungary:

Despite the collection of longer and slower speed corners in Hungary, historically this has been a pretty good track for Macca, mostly in qualifying… the high downforce nature of Hungary means the teams run very loaded setups, thus the corners become very ‘stop and go’ and really reduces the mid corner and the asphalt around Hungaroing also offers very high grip, which is inherently good for McLaren.

Last year luckily both quail and the race were much cooler conditions with overcast which really helped maintain higher grip, with new soft rubber and lower fuel the car was about +0.4 off pole.

It is a very different track to Silverstone, whilst the slow speed is a fundamental underlying issue, this won’t be a big problem in qualifying as the high grip surface, and new softs will mask those losses as seen last year. The MCL60 overall as a package produces decent downforce, as have McLarens historically in a high downforce configuration, so I don’t think it’s farfetched to think we can qualify somewhere at the sharp end (edit: the cooler the better)

The race is where I expect us to fall back compared to Silverstone, where we lost in the slower turns 4-5, 6-7, and 16-17 the car made up for in Copse, Maggotts, Becketts, and Stowe. A positive is that despite the slower speed weakness the car was still better or matched some of the top cars in the slower sections despite the underlying issues…

[101FlyingDutchman]

I’m finding it very difficult to predict exactly how Hungary is going to play out. This car does seem very much b-spec since Austria as it doesn’t behave in the same fashion as the launch MCL60.
Part of me thinks, tyre deg at high temps will still be a problem for this MCL60. But it’s definitely looks better early doors for race pace no matter what the temp. Equally efficient downforce is very much noticeable but compared to the RB19, the speed gain with DRS open, the RB19 is still some way ahead of the pack.

I sincerely hope the longer radius slower corner issues are fixed. This has been inherent problem for years. Those corners where you’re not in heavy braking, point and shoot but the trailbraking, carrying speed into the corner and letting it wash off. I fear that won’t be fixed until we have a windtunnel that works well in yaw.

But who knows. Hungary to me is the litmus test. Whichever way, the concept direction change has been validated. Come what May for the rest of the season, this is the foundation we build on

[mwillems]

Helmut has tried many times. Lando never accepted.

This is old news. Red Bull already approach Lando prior to signing the current contract.

Indeed they did however there are rumours that Marko met with Lando's agent at the British GP. And with lot of talk about RB's second seat they could be considering a crazy swoop for Lando

Frankly I believe Norris will turn down any Marko approach.

I don't believe Zak will let him go right now. What a time to suddenly find the performance in the car and deliver a podium.

[mwillems]

I’m finding it very difficult to predict exactly how Hungary is going to play out. This car does seem very much b-spec since Austria as it doesn’t behave in the same fashion as the launch MCL60.
Part of me thinks, tyre deg at high temps will still be a problem for this MCL60. But it’s definitely looks better early doors for race pace no matter what the temp. Equally efficient downforce is very much noticeable but compared to the RB19, the speed gain with DRS open, the RB19 is still some way ahead of the pack.

I sincerely hope the longer radius slower corner issues are fixed. This has been inherent problem for years. Those corners where you’re not in heavy braking, point and shoot but the trailbraking, carrying speed into the corner and letting it wash off. I fear that won’t be fixed until we have a windtunnel that works well in yaw.

But who knows. Hungary to me is the litmus test. Whichever way, the concept direction change has been validated. Come what May for the rest of the season, this is the foundation we build on

Given that everyone has deployment quandries at silverstone, it will be much easier to see if there is a deployment issue at Hungary.

Re:Yaw... if they have made the platform more stable Yaw is less of an issue. One would like to think that this has already been addressed a little, but I have no idea if that is the case.

[101FlyingDutchman]

I’m finding it very difficult to predict exactly how Hungary is going to play out. This car does seem very much b-spec since Austria as it doesn’t behave in the same fashion as the launch MCL60.
Part of me thinks, tyre deg at high temps will still be a problem for this MCL60. But it’s definitely looks better early doors for race pace no matter what the temp. Equally efficient downforce is very much noticeable but compared to the RB19, the speed gain with DRS open, the RB19 is still some way ahead of the pack.

I sincerely hope the longer radius slower corner issues are fixed. This has been inherent problem for years. Those corners where you’re not in heavy braking, point and shoot but the trailbraking, carrying speed into the corner and letting it wash off. I fear that won’t be fixed until we have a windtunnel that works well in yaw.

But who knows. Hungary to me is the litmus test. Whichever way, the concept direction change has been validated. Come what May for the rest of the season, this is the foundation we build on

Given that everyone has deployment quandries at silverstone, it will be much easier to see if there is a deployment issue at Hungary.

Re:Yaw... if they have made the platform more stable Yaw is less of an issue. One would like to think that this has already been addressed a little, but I have no idea if that is the case.

Fingers crossed mate. Seems Lando isn’t always an accurate barometer on how “good” certain upgrades have been. Guess I wants to err on the side of caution and keep pushing the team hard to improve

[Mcl_G10]

Things are well on the up. This new updated car was expected to put us in amongst the merc/aston/ferrari battle but the numbers are better that originally expected and with a little more of the package to come.
I'm going out on a bit of a limb here as I do not have a full or in depth understanding of how much exactly the car is over performing by but I would say as of now that in terms of overall package we are going to be the car closest to catching the redbull. This is merely speculation at this point (until proven true) but as I said the car has performed much better than expected and that original expectation was in and around merc/aston/ferrari.

I actually believe the nature of the track will suit the car, sector 2 and 3 we will be a match for redbull. I think I would fancy both cars in the top 8 with lando on the front row.
I'm glad that this special team has finally landed on the right path, at last.

[McL-H]

Are we weak on exit and in twisty corners in this configuration or this that a reference to the trait we have had prior to the update?

I confess I didn't look at corner exit at Silverstone but we were certainly not great in twisty sections and we weren't always great at corner exit.... but I always thought the team were suggesting this was down to two things, the conditions (Temps, Track Surface) and the cars ability to run off throttle and not all twisty sections are equal. Lando has confirmed that the off throttle issue is much better now anyway due to the cars new Aero.

All I'm saying is, we don't fully know what is weak on this car yet and the strengths and weaknesses are changeable based on circumstances, so Hungry represents its own challenge.

To my amateur eyes the telemetry below doesn't suggest we struggle in the twist sections, in fact in the final two twisty corners before the straight we are on a par or faster than Mercedes. It doesn't men we are perfect and there isn't work to do, but I'd just not call it weak, we don't have enough evidence yet. Not only that, this new car specification has only been tested in cool conditions and with decent track surfaces. So for me it feels quite unkown.

https://i.ibb.co/HKgpR51/Norris-v-Ham.png

Take for example the track at Barcelona, turns 10 throughout 13 were pure pain for us, to clarify I'm talking about twisty turns where you hare not traveling that fast, so comparison to Silverstone is not ideal as this is a track were you carry much more speed and momentum trough the corners.

Ahh OK I get you. So yes we were certainly not great, but this is in many ways a different car now, so I suppose what I'm saying is we can't assume what traits have carried over. In the Silverstone telemetry there are two parts for the track that are twisty, although I'm not sure they require much off throttle, certainly not before the start finish straight. But in the opportunities at low speed corners we had good exit and good minimum speed.

What I'm not sure about was wether that was influenced by the temps and the surface and I think Hungary will be a very good chance to see what flaws the car may have fixed or may still have, but I wouldn't want to say that the car is weak at corner exit or twisty off throttle sections just yet, because so far the data looks promising. But that's just my take, I feel optimistic that this car will work well at Hungary, and well for me is two top ten finishes.

Lando was very quick turn 3 at Spielberg.

[SmallSoldier]

I'm not sure why folks are stressing abut Hungary. Some of the info also seems to contradict telemetry and the teams own comments. We are not weak in slow corners, we just had less improvement in slow corners, and there was improvement in slow corners. The telemetry bore this out. Vs those around us we consistently held more minimum speed at these corners.

We are weak at the exist of slow corners, mainly due to lack of front mechanical grip and traction at the rear, and we are weak in the slow but twisty corners where you need to change direction multiple times, again due to the same reasons mentioned above. Weak front end leads to understeer, thus the difficulty, so hopefully this has been mitigated with the new upgrades (installed & to be installed in Hungary)

Are we weak on exit and in twisty corners in this configuration or this that a reference to the trait we have had prior to the update?

I confess I didn't look at corner exit at Silverstone but we were certainly not great in twisty sections and we weren't always great at corner exit.... but I always thought the team were suggesting this was down to two things, the conditions (Temps, Track Surface) and the cars ability to run off throttle and not all twisty sections are equal. Lando has confirmed that the off throttle issue is much better now anyway due to the cars new Aero.

All I'm saying is, we don't fully know what is weak on this car yet and the strengths and weaknesses are changeable based on circumstances, so Hungry represents its own challenge.

To my amateur eyes the telemetry below doesn't suggest we struggle in the twist sections, in fact in the final two twisty corners before the straight we are on a par or faster than Mercedes. It doesn't men we are perfect and there isn't work to do, but I'd just not call it weak, we don't have enough evidence yet. Not only that, this new car specification has only been tested in cool conditions and with decent track surfaces. So for me it feels quite unkown.

https://i.ibb.co/HKgpR51/Norris-v-Ham.png

Let’s not forget that qualifying usually masks the weaknesses… Brand new grippy tires are usually very good at handling slow corners

[SmallSoldier]

Ahh OK I get you. So yes we were certainly not great, but this is in many ways a different car now, so I suppose what I'm saying is we can't assume what traits have carried over. In the Silverstone telemetry there are two parts for the track that are twisty, although I'm not sure they require much off throttle, certainly not before the start finish straight. But in the opportunities at low speed corners we had good exit and good minimum speed.

What I'm not sure about was wether that was influenced by the temps and the surface and I think Hungary will be a very good chance to see what flaws the car may have fixed or may still have, but I wouldn't want to say that the car is weak at corner exit or twisty off throttle sections just yet, because so far the data looks promising. But that's just my take, I feel optimistic that this car will work well at Hungary, and well for me is two top ten finishes.

You have to understand the problem that we have with slow turns is not aero.Is mechanical and it is really old .Something like 5 - 7 years old. We carry over it from the previous regulations and mostly has to do with suspension and chassis .The main reason for pull rod suspension choice that we done with this regulations and design choices was to cure it. Because pull rod is really difficult because it create a lot of dirty air and needs a lot of fine tunning. But if you get it right you have better weight distribution and you can have a balance between heating up the tires and maintaining them at the same time. That's why you hear Verstappen especially in FP and between each q1 to q2 and especially q3 complaining. Because they to try to find the balance just right. If you hit this sweet spot your golden

It's partly aero as a stalling diffuser even at low speed makes marked difference, it's not all mechanical. And aside from that the team themselves say they have improved low speed corners, just not as much as other areas of the track. Bear in mid also we did update the rear suspension, something we know much less about because it isn't described in the show and tell.

So I say the same, lets wait and see.

Didn’t upgrade the rear suspension… There were changes to the rear suspension fairings (the carbon fiber covers) for aerodynamic purposes

[LionsHeart]

This is about why McLaren chose hard tires. Look at the drop in pace. RB, Mercedes and Aston are comparable, so tire wear is minimal. McLaren and Ferrari are comparable, therefore, more accelerated tire wear.

[Balalu]

McLaren are not in the soft tyre data as they did not use them in the race.

[LionsHeart]

Has anyone ridden medium tires? What about the overall slowdown? My point is, put soft tires on a McLaren and they would fail due to tire overrun. Lando’s engineer said that hard tires is the best option.