2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

McLaren upgrades have worked the jump is big.. they are faster than ashton martin.. faster than redbull in high speed .. peter pro is working his magic

And on a par with AM and Ferrari in the slow speed, given that Lando was running less DF this is very interesting.

Often it is dangerous to look at a single corner as we have been doing in this thread because it can sometimes be affected by how drivers attack the bends, with gains in one corner offset by losses in another due to the drivers own styles.

I'm cautiously optimistic that this weekend will demonstrate that these corners at Hungary are nothing to be scared of for Mclaren.

The trends are also impacted by how the teams are choosing to compromise for the best laptime.

As Hungary is exclusively low and medium speed, a different order may reveal itself, nevertheless I do expect Mclaren to mix it up with Ferrari, Mercedes, and Aston. Driver execution will likely be the biggest factor with cars so close together. A 1 tenth driving error in qualifying can be the difference between P3 and P9.

Absolutely, the Mclaren setup for Lando was low DF and will compromise these times from Silverstone, not to mention how much we are set up to attach kerbs etc.

I still think Top 8 but I also think we will be much closer. Last year we may have been 7th but also 70 seconds away from 1st... I expect that gap to be much smaller and to see some close racing, who knows where the chips will land.

One thing I have seen over the years is a lot of armchair experts saying what the car is good at and bad at, and then at the next race the opposite happens. And the reason for this is it isn't as simple as many on here want to reduce it to. The temps, wind speed, wind direction, affect on the tyres in long and short corners, setup, the time of day, alignment of the moons and Donald Trumps buttocks are just some of the complex things that can affect the cars performance.

Almost universally over the past few years predictions for what would happen in the next race were wrong, on some occasions right for the wrong reasons and a few occasions just right. But the real smart people round here are the ones who realise they don't know the true profile of the cars performance and talk on what is possible, and not that the facts they have available provide the definitive answer, they don't, not even close.


Edit: Sorry, Donald Trumps buttocks and mandated Tyre pressures.

[LionsHeart]

[mwillems]

And naturally they were going to put Oscar and Daniel in the same press conference !

[Macklaren]

McLaren upgrades have worked the jump is big.. they are faster than ashton martin.. faster than redbull in high speed .. peter pro is working his magic

Ok I'll say it...I am not ruling out McLaren chasing down Ferrari and AMR in the constructors championship. Will be impossible I know, but worth a shot. If we are faster than those two teams at every race from here, that will be golden. I don't care about RBR or Merc

[LionsHeart]

Relative performance progress in one fast lap:

[Ground Effect]

I'll write here about the new wind tunnel: Stella mentioned in the spring that there will be a big package before the summer break and one big package after the summer break. We have already seen one of them and it was modeled and adjusted in the Toyota wind tunnel. He also mentioned that by June the equipment, fine-tuning and calibration of the new wind tunnel should be completed. Therefore, if the technical regulations remain stable, then the second large update package should be developed on a new wind tunnel for more accurate testing. I see this as a logical and understandable solution.

The team must know their main computing tool very precisely. And it is better to know such things sooner rather than later. This will also allow more precise calibration of the instruments used in testing 60% of the chassis model. The more precise, the better. There should be a correlation between the new wind tunnel and the car that hits the track. After that, the team will double-check and calibrate the pipe again based on data from the simulator and CFD computers.

Using a new pipe for a 2024 car like this seems like a very stupid decision to me, especially considering that Lando's patience is also not unlimited. The team must provide him with a fast car as quickly as possible. The beginning of 2023 was the hardest for him, and he mentioned it. Yes, he remains loyal to the team and that's great for us fans. Stella mentioned in recent interviews that there will still be updates this year, so we are looking forward to the second half of the season, for some reason I am sure that they will be developed already on the new wind tunnel.

Except things have changed, McLaren indicated that the 2024 car would be developed in the Toyota wind tunnel, while in-season upgrades for the 2024 car would be handled in the new wind tunnel. The 2025 car would be the first car that the new wind tunnel will be exclusively used for.

[LionsHeart]

I'll write here about the new wind tunnel: Stella mentioned in the spring that there will be a big package before the summer break and one big package after the summer break. We have already seen one of them and it was modeled and adjusted in the Toyota wind tunnel. He also mentioned that by June the equipment, fine-tuning and calibration of the new wind tunnel should be completed. Therefore, if the technical regulations remain stable, then the second large update package should be developed on a new wind tunnel for more accurate testing. I see this as a logical and understandable solution.

The team must know their main computing tool very precisely. And it is better to know such things sooner rather than later. This will also allow more precise calibration of the instruments used in testing 60% of the chassis model. The more precise, the better. There should be a correlation between the new wind tunnel and the car that hits the track. After that, the team will double-check and calibrate the pipe again based on data from the simulator and CFD computers.

Using a new pipe for a 2024 car like this seems like a very stupid decision to me, especially considering that Lando's patience is also not unlimited. The team must provide him with a fast car as quickly as possible. The beginning of 2023 was the hardest for him, and he mentioned it. Yes, he remains loyal to the team and that's great for us fans. Stella mentioned in recent interviews that there will still be updates this year, so we are looking forward to the second half of the season, for some reason I am sure that they will be developed already on the new wind tunnel.

Except things have changed, McLaren indicated that the 2024 car would be developed in the Toyota wind tunnel, while in-season upgrades for the 2024 car would be handled in the new wind tunnel. The 2025 car would be the first car that the new wind tunnel will be exclusively used for.

Seriously? Where was it written? I would like confirmation from team officials, not blah blah from the media.

[CjC]

McLaren upgrades have worked the jump is big.. they are faster than ashton martin.. faster than redbull in high speed .. peter pro is working his magic

And on a par with AM and Ferrari in the slow speed, given that Lando was running less DF this is very interesting.

Often it is dangerous to look at a single corner as we have been doing in this thread because it can sometimes be affected by how drivers attack the bends, with gains in one corner offset by losses in another due to the drivers own styles.

I'm cautiously optimistic that this weekend will demonstrate that these corners at Hungary are nothing to be scared of for Mclaren.

Have they used Oscars data for their results who was running higher DF than Lando though?

[mwillems]

McLaren upgrades have worked the jump is big.. they are faster than ashton martin.. faster than redbull in high speed .. peter pro is working his magic

And on a par with AM and Ferrari in the slow speed, given that Lando was running less DF this is very interesting.

Often it is dangerous to look at a single corner as we have been doing in this thread because it can sometimes be affected by how drivers attack the bends, with gains in one corner offset by losses in another due to the drivers own styles.

I'm cautiously optimistic that this weekend will demonstrate that these corners at Hungary are nothing to be scared of for Mclaren.

Have they used Oscars data for their results who was running higher DF than Lando though?

I would think either an average of the two or the fastest car around the track, hopefully not whomever was fastest on that section of the track as we all know about how useful that amazon best mini sectors are across the practise when the teams have used different setups, the resultant "best predicted lap time" is a composite of different car setups during FP.

I did get to grips the the F1 data APIin Python and I gave up on it as it would have been a bit time consuming to write what I wanted, one day I will write something that can do more complex presentations than F1Tempo and produce different types of comparisons.

[CjC]

True mate but we live in world of sensationalistic media so I’d take their data with a pinch of salt.

However I will reiterate how I’d love to be proven wrong by the team come the end of the race- just like Silverstone

[mwillems]

I've asked on the twitter page which drivers. It's an average of laps 12-22 so I'd be surprised if those times just represented OP.

[Ground Effect]

I'll write here about the new wind tunnel: Stella mentioned in the spring that there will be a big package before the summer break and one big package after the summer break. We have already seen one of them and it was modeled and adjusted in the Toyota wind tunnel. He also mentioned that by June the equipment, fine-tuning and calibration of the new wind tunnel should be completed. Therefore, if the technical regulations remain stable, then the second large update package should be developed on a new wind tunnel for more accurate testing. I see this as a logical and understandable solution.

The team must know their main computing tool very precisely. And it is better to know such things sooner rather than later. This will also allow more precise calibration of the instruments used in testing 60% of the chassis model. The more precise, the better. There should be a correlation between the new wind tunnel and the car that hits the track. After that, the team will double-check and calibrate the pipe again based on data from the simulator and CFD computers.

Using a new pipe for a 2024 car like this seems like a very stupid decision to me, especially considering that Lando's patience is also not unlimited. The team must provide him with a fast car as quickly as possible. The beginning of 2023 was the hardest for him, and he mentioned it. Yes, he remains loyal to the team and that's great for us fans. Stella mentioned in recent interviews that there will still be updates this year, so we are looking forward to the second half of the season, for some reason I am sure that they will be developed already on the new wind tunnel.

Except things have changed, McLaren indicated that the 2024 car would be developed in the Toyota wind tunnel, while in-season upgrades for the 2024 car would be handled in the new wind tunnel. The 2025 car would be the first car that the new wind tunnel will be exclusively used for.

Seriously? Where was it written? I would like confirmation from team officials, not blah blah from the media.

The benefits of McLaren’s new wind tunnel and simulator are set to be fully felt with the development of its 2025 Formula 1 car, according to Zak Brown.

The Woking-based squad pioneered the use of simulators in F1 but its unit has become outdated, and the Toyota wind tunnel which it has been using in Germany’s Cologne has similarly been surpassed.

Technical Director James Key admitted in 2021 that McLaren has been compensating for having inferior infrastructure, a situation which is set to end this year.

By then, however, development of its 2024 car will be partway down the road, meaning the team’s investment will not be completely exploited until the 2025 season.

“It’ll start to impact our ‘24 car [and] it will have full impact for our ‘25 car because it comes online middle of [this] year, which means we’ll already be started on our ‘24 car,” McLaren Racing CEO Brown explained as part of the KTM Summer Grill series on Speedcafe.com.

“So, I think we’ll have everything we need fully up and running for the ‘25 season.

“We’ll be kind of 80 percent of the way there in the ‘24 season.”

[continuum16]

I think the "Monaco without the walls" reputation of Hungary is a bit obsolete. With the exception of the chicane at the top of the hill, most of the corners in sector 2 are 4th gear or above. Turns 4, 10, and 11 are fast corners and in quali will be nearly flat in the dry. I think the team will be OK, probably P5-P8 (out of 20, not 10) which is still better than they were before Austria.

I'm more interested to see how/if they are impacted by Pirelli's decision to bring softer compounds compared to last year since McLaren struggled slightly more on softer compounds compared to the rest of the chasing pack in Silverstone.

[mwillems]

Except things have changed, McLaren indicated that the 2024 car would be developed in the Toyota wind tunnel, while in-season upgrades for the 2024 car would be handled in the new wind tunnel. The 2025 car would be the first car that the new wind tunnel will be exclusively used for.

Seriously? Where was it written? I would like confirmation from team officials, not blah blah from the media.

The benefits of McLaren’s new wind tunnel and simulator are set to be fully felt with the development of its 2025 Formula 1 car, according to Zak Brown.

The Woking-based squad pioneered the use of simulators in F1 but its unit has become outdated, and the Toyota wind tunnel which it has been using in Germany’s Cologne has similarly been surpassed.

Technical Director James Key admitted in 2021 that McLaren has been compensating for having inferior infrastructure, a situation which is set to end this year.

By then, however, development of its 2024 car will be partway down the road, meaning the team’s investment will not be completely exploited until the 2025 season.

“It’ll start to impact our ‘24 car [and] it will have full impact for our ‘25 car because it comes online middle of [this] year, which means we’ll already be started on our ‘24 car,” McLaren Racing CEO Brown explained as part of the KTM Summer Grill series on Speedcafe.com.

“So, I think we’ll have everything we need fully up and running for the ‘25 season.

“We’ll be kind of 80 percent of the way there in the ‘24 season.”

I don't know how rigid it is, I think there is some flexibility with the FIA, but you have to nominate your wind tunnel for the calendar year and I believe that these nominations may have happened on or after September.

However, I also recall reading somewhere that the FIA would be flexible and this was largely to keep people in the same tunnel where activities could be tracked, and not chopping and changing between facilities, which would be harder to monitor. I understood that the tunnel was coming on line pretty soon so it could be that the tunnel becomes properly active in mid August after the summer break. Typically the '24 car might have started development in May or June I guess, but they are hitting this years car hard with updates.

I wonder if some of the dev for the 24 car will indeed happen in the new tunnel. Even if the bulk doesn't, they will have opportunities to validate and sense check some of the areas they can't in cologne, in time to make any corrections required before the build starts later in the year.

[scuderiabrandon]

I think the "Monaco without the walls" reputation of Hungary is a bit obsolete. With the exception of the chicane at the top of the hill, most of the corners in sector 2 are 4th gear or above. Turns 4, 10, and 11 are fast corners and in quali will be nearly flat in the dry. I think the team will be OK, probably P5-P8 (out of 20, not 10) which is still better than they were before Austria.

I'm more interested to see how/if they are impacted by Pirelli's decision to bring softer compounds compared to last year since McLaren struggled slightly more on softer compounds compared to the rest of the chasing pack in Silverstone.

The Monaco reference is more towards the fact that it is really hard to overtake at Hungaroring. I don't think it is a tyre compound thing, more of a track specific thing. The compounds will always be harder at the higher speed circuits.

I do believe it will be a tougher weekend. They were only marginally quicker than Ferrari in the low speed at Silverstone (who are typically strong in the low speed), who had an absolute stinker of a weekend. So it is hard to judge how much improvement they've made in this area.

Alpine and Aston are also typically much stronger at rear limited circuits. So that will exaggerate the weakness more. But honestly, things are so close form P2 onwards that a simple setup error or tyre prep error can swing things around drastically

On the bright side, they have a clear picture on what to improve for 2024.