2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[LionsHeart]

Except things have changed, McLaren indicated that the 2024 car would be developed in the Toyota wind tunnel, while in-season upgrades for the 2024 car would be handled in the new wind tunnel. The 2025 car would be the first car that the new wind tunnel will be exclusively used for.

Seriously? Where was it written? I would like confirmation from team officials, not blah blah from the media.

The benefits of McLaren’s new wind tunnel and simulator are set to be fully felt with the development of its 2025 Formula 1 car, according to Zak Brown.

The Woking-based squad pioneered the use of simulators in F1 but its unit has become outdated, and the Toyota wind tunnel which it has been using in Germany’s Cologne has similarly been surpassed.

Technical Director James Key admitted in 2021 that McLaren has been compensating for having inferior infrastructure, a situation which is set to end this year.

By then, however, development of its 2024 car will be partway down the road, meaning the team’s investment will not be completely exploited until the 2025 season.

“It’ll start to impact our ‘24 car [and] it will have full impact for our ‘25 car because it comes online middle of [this] year, which means we’ll already be started on our ‘24 car,” McLaren Racing CEO Brown explained as part of the KTM Summer Grill series on Speedcafe.com.

“So, I think we’ll have everything we need fully up and running for the ‘25 season.

“We’ll be kind of 80 percent of the way there in the ‘24 season.”

Hmm. Ok, thank you.

[LionsHeart]

The Hungaroring track is called Monaco without walls also because the average speed of the track is higher than that of Monaco. All other tracks on the calendar are much faster. This kind of boldly hints that there are an abundance of slow and medium-speed turns on the track, straight sections are short, even the starting line is short by F1 standards.

[FittingMechanics]

I see that many claim McLaren ran a low DF setup in Silverstone? Is that really true? McLaren was fastest in high speed corners which indicate that they had a lot of downforce in those corners allowing them to change direction easier than Mercedes. McLaren didn't seem to be amazing on the straights, especially compared to Red Bull. Even Hamilton did not say it is fast in the straights, he just couldn't follow McLaren through the high speed twisty bits. Also I think that looking at rear wings at the start of the weekend you could see McLaren having a bigger rear wing.

I know that it doesn't really make sense - high DF but bad in slow corners but that may be because slower parts required more change of direction (not just point and shoot like Austria).

[LionsHeart]

I see that many claim McLaren ran a low DF setup in Silverstone? Is that really true? McLaren was fastest in high speed corners which indicate that they had a lot of downforce in those corners allowing them to change direction easier than Mercedes. McLaren didn't seem to be amazing on the straights, especially compared to Red Bull. Even Hamilton did not say it is fast in the straights, he just couldn't follow McLaren through the high speed twisty bits. Also I think that looking at rear wings at the start of the weekend you could see McLaren having a bigger rear wing.

I know that it doesn't really make sense - high DF but bad in slow corners but that may be because slower parts required more change of direction (not just point and shoot like Austria).

Let me explain: the general specification of the McLaren rear wing has not changed since the Canadian Grand Prix. The differences were minimal and only concerned the trimming of the upper flap at Lando at Silverstone. I've posted pictures here before, you can check them out. The updated front wing on Lando's car was also tuned for less downforce than Oscar's. The maximum speed differed on average by 1-3 km/h without DRS and 1 km/h with DRS.

[LionsHeart]

If we compare the dimensions of the rear wing, then they are comparable for Red Bull and McLaren, in general, the Mercedes rear wing can also be attributed there. But Ferrari and Aston brought a wing for a lower aerodynamic load. The emphasis was on maximum speed. This is easily confirmed by telemetry in all qualifying segments. In the first two segments, DRS could not be turned on; in the third segment, DRS was allowed to be turned on.

[LionsHeart]

Ok, that’s interesting:

[LionsHeart]

If I saw it clearly, then an updated rear wing was brought to McLaren! Hurrah, finally! Take a close look at the articulation of the main flap and the top flap. The slit between them continues further down, I have not seen this before in Monaco.

Edit: sorry guys, this is same Monaco rear wing
https://ibb.co/mCbCCrY

McLaren and Mercedes brought barn doors, which can not be said about Alpin, they have a rear wing for medium-high downforce, which is more suitable for the track in Bahrain or Barcelona.

[mclaren111]

Hello! I'm new to the forum. Just wanted to ask how much do you guys think the new front wing/nose Lando run in Silverstone is worth in lap time realistically? I've read between 0.05 and 0.1 tenths, but the FP1 times from when he was running the old front wing and nose didn't seem that different. If anything it seemed to mess with the balance of the car according to his comments. Do you guys reckon it will be more useful in Hungary? Thanks!

Wellcome... Hope you enjoy it here...

[LionsHeart]

Zak Brown indirectly confirms that they remain on Mercedes power plants. It's good, I believe in Mercedes much more than Red Bull Ford or Cadillac:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/07/20/mc ... ower-unit/

[mclaren111]

And on a par with AM and Ferrari in the slow speed, given that Lando was running less DF this is very interesting.

Often it is dangerous to look at a single corner as we have been doing in this thread because it can sometimes be affected by how drivers attack the bends, with gains in one corner offset by losses in another due to the drivers own styles.

I'm cautiously optimistic that this weekend will demonstrate that these corners at Hungary are nothing to be scared of for Mclaren.

The trends are also impacted by how the teams are choosing to compromise for the best laptime.

As Hungary is exclusively low and medium speed, a different order may reveal itself, nevertheless I do expect Mclaren to mix it up with Ferrari, Mercedes, and Aston. Driver execution will likely be the biggest factor with cars so close together. A 1 tenth driving error in qualifying can be the difference between P3 and P9.

Absolutely, the Mclaren setup for Lando was low DF and will compromise these times from Silverstone, not to mention how much we are set up to attach kerbs etc.

I still think Top 8 but I also think we will be much closer. Last year we may have been 7th but also 70 seconds away from 1st... I expect that gap to be much smaller and to see some close racing, who knows where the chips will land.

One thing I have seen over the years is a lot of armchair experts saying what the car is good at and bad at, and then at the next race the opposite happens. And the reason for this is it isn't as simple as many on here want to reduce it to. The temps, wind speed, wind direction, affect on the tyres in long and short corners, setup, the time of day, alignment of the moons and Donald Trumps buttocks are just some of the complex things that can affect the cars performance.

Almost universally over the past few years predictions for what would happen in the next race were wrong, on some occasions right for the wrong reasons and a few occasions just right. But the real smart people round here are the ones who realise they don't know the true profile of the cars performance and talk on what is possible, and not that the facts they have available provide the definitive answer, they don't, not even close.


Edit: Sorry, Donald Trump's buttocks and mandated Tyre pressures.

[MrGapes]

I see that many claim McLaren ran a low DF setup in Silverstone? Is that really true? McLaren was fastest in high speed corners which indicate that they had a lot of downforce in those corners allowing them to change direction easier than Mercedes. McLaren didn't seem to be amazing on the straights, especially compared to Red Bull. Even Hamilton did not say it is fast in the straights, he just couldn't follow McLaren through the high speed twisty bits. Also I think that looking at rear wings at the start of the weekend you could see McLaren having a bigger rear wing.

I know that it doesn't really make sense - high DF but bad in slow corners but that may be because slower parts required more change of direction (not just point and shoot like Austria).

Let me explain: the general specification of the McLaren rear wing has not changed since the Canadian Grand Prix. The differences were minimal and only concerned the trimming of the upper flap at Lando at Silverstone. I've posted pictures here before, you can check them out. The updated front wing on Lando's car was also tuned for less downforce than Oscar's. The maximum speed differed on average by 1-3 km/h without DRS and 1 km/h with DRS.

They ran a larger wing in Canada, as well as different beamwing configurations.

[LionsHeart]

I see that many claim McLaren ran a low DF setup in Silverstone? Is that really true? McLaren was fastest in high speed corners which indicate that they had a lot of downforce in those corners allowing them to change direction easier than Mercedes. McLaren didn't seem to be amazing on the straights, especially compared to Red Bull. Even Hamilton did not say it is fast in the straights, he just couldn't follow McLaren through the high speed twisty bits. Also I think that looking at rear wings at the start of the weekend you could see McLaren having a bigger rear wing.

I know that it doesn't really make sense - high DF but bad in slow corners but that may be because slower parts required more change of direction (not just point and shoot like Austria).

Let me explain: the general specification of the McLaren rear wing has not changed since the Canadian Grand Prix. The differences were minimal and only concerned the trimming of the upper flap at Lando at Silverstone. I've posted pictures here before, you can check them out. The updated front wing on Lando's car was also tuned for less downforce than Oscar's. The maximum speed differed on average by 1-3 km/h without DRS and 1 km/h with DRS.

They ran a larger wing in Canada, as well as different beamwing configurations.

I didn’t say anything about the beam wing, it’s hard to assess, but you’re wrong about the rear wing.

[FittingMechanics]

If we compare the dimensions of the rear wing, then they are comparable for Red Bull and McLaren, in general, the Mercedes rear wing can also be attributed there. But Ferrari and Aston brought a wing for a lower aerodynamic load. The emphasis was on maximum speed. This is easily confirmed by telemetry in all qualifying segments. In the first two segments, DRS could not be turned on; in the third segment, DRS was allowed to be turned on.

That was my point. McLaren was not using a low downforce setup for Silverstone. They would not gain massively in couple of high speed corners if that was the case. They would gain on the straights which is not what happened.

[LionsHeart]

I see that many claim McLaren ran a low DF setup in Silverstone? Is that really true? McLaren was fastest in high speed corners which indicate that they had a lot of downforce in those corners allowing them to change direction easier than Mercedes. McLaren didn't seem to be amazing on the straights, especially compared to Red Bull. Even Hamilton did not say it is fast in the straights, he just couldn't follow McLaren through the high speed twisty bits. Also I think that looking at rear wings at the start of the weekend you could see McLaren having a bigger rear wing.

I know that it doesn't really make sense - high DF but bad in slow corners but that may be because slower parts required more change of direction (not just point and shoot like Austria).

Let me explain: the general specification of the McLaren rear wing has not changed since the Canadian Grand Prix. The differences were minimal and only concerned the trimming of the upper flap at Lando at Silverstone. I've posted pictures here before, you can check them out. The updated front wing on Lando's car was also tuned for less downforce than Oscar's. The maximum speed differed on average by 1-3 km/h without DRS and 1 km/h with DRS.

They ran a larger wing in Canada, as well as different beamwing configurations.

https://ibb.co/55PbXgQ
https://ibb.co/gZZQq0X
These photos are from a race in Canada. Now compare that to wings from Austria and Silverstone. I'm waiting for your arguments. I assure you, these are the same rear wings.

[LionsHeart]

If we compare the dimensions of the rear wing, then they are comparable for Red Bull and McLaren, in general, the Mercedes rear wing can also be attributed there. But Ferrari and Aston brought a wing for a lower aerodynamic load. The emphasis was on maximum speed. This is easily confirmed by telemetry in all qualifying segments. In the first two segments, DRS could not be turned on; in the third segment, DRS was allowed to be turned on.

That was my point. McLaren was not using a low downforce setup for Silverstone. They would not gain massively in couple of high speed corners if that was the case. They would gain on the straights which is not what happened.

That’s right. There was indeed a difference in downforce between Lando and Oscar, Lando was driving with less downforce, but the difference is not so striking that Lando was much faster on the straights than Oscar, and that Lando lost a lot to Oscar in the corners. Not at all. Lando's average pace in the race was 0.1 seconds faster, and it doesn't matter who went faster where, because maybe Lando just managed to save tires better, although this is nonsense. I watched the roundup of the top ten drivers, Oscar's pace was comparable throughout the entire segment, he was just slightly inferior to Lando.