2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[LionsHeart]

Chrome auto translates for me.

Thanks. Now I’ve leant Italian I realise the article is a regurgitation of what I posted the other day.

What I find interesting is and I’ve read Stella being quoted his a few times is they see no benefit to bring any new parts to the MCL60 that were developed for the 2024 machine yet Aston Martin say the opposite and that they will keep developing the ‘23 car with upgrades which have been developed for the ‘24 car?

I can only guess that there is enough difference that the 24 car can't plug parts into this years car.

Doesn't have to be significant, just enough that they aren't directly compatible. Much like most of last years parts couldn't be taken, as they'd need to work with the package.

There's no absolutes though, I'm sure that if they saw something that would offer a big update for little effort then why not.

I suppose they don't want to show their hand either if they think they are being original.

I think so too. Do not reveal cards ahead of time.

[Wouter]

Lando Norris And Oscar Piastri Attempt Cake Decorating! Celebrating Our 60th Birthday!
McLaren

It's our 60th birthday! To celebrate we asked Lando and Oscar to decorate some birthday cakes... to varying degrees of success!

[SmallSoldier]

Chrome auto translates for me.

Thanks. Now I’ve leant Italian I realise the article is a regurgitation of what I posted the other day.

What I find interesting is and I’ve read Stella being quoted his a few times is they see no benefit to bring any new parts to the MCL60 that were developed for the 2024 machine yet Aston Martin say the opposite and that they will keep developing the ‘23 car with upgrades which have been developed for the ‘24 car?

Well, those developments that are now at the development stage will later be installed in the car in September. As I understand it, this is the last package. And after that, the team will fully focus on the 2024 car. This is good.

They aren’t “developing” anything for the MCL60 at this point… The package that will be introduced in September probably finished development in July before the Summer Break, it is under production now… The team should have shift focus from a design / development perspective to the 2024 car before shutdown

[SmallSoldier]

Chrome auto translates for me.

Thanks. Now I’ve leant Italian I realise the article is a regurgitation of what I posted the other day.

What I find interesting is and I’ve read Stella being quoted his a few times is they see no benefit to bring any new parts to the MCL60 that were developed for the 2024 machine yet Aston Martin say the opposite and that they will keep developing the ‘23 car with upgrades which have been developed for the ‘24 car?

I can only guess that there is enough difference that the 24 car can't plug parts into this years car.

Doesn't have to be significant, just enough that they aren't directly compatible. Much like most of last years parts couldn't be taken, as they'd need to work with the package.

There's no absolutes though, I'm sure that if they saw something that would offer a big update for little effort then why not.

I suppose they don't want to show their hand either if they think they are being original.

You are on the money… On one side, the parts work in unison, so if there are any kind of chassis changes for 2024 for example, they won’t work on the MCL60… On the other hand, it is a matter of iterations and if they continue to find gains from the concept, there is no point bringing parts that could be developed further… Finally, you have the budget cap, at certain point you can keep producing parts if you need to stay in within the cap and give yourself room for any eventuality (like a big crash that requires several parts to be manufactured)

[LionsHeart]

Thanks. Now I’ve leant Italian I realise the article is a regurgitation of what I posted the other day.

What I find interesting is and I’ve read Stella being quoted his a few times is they see no benefit to bring any new parts to the MCL60 that were developed for the 2024 machine yet Aston Martin say the opposite and that they will keep developing the ‘23 car with upgrades which have been developed for the ‘24 car?

Well, those developments that are now at the development stage will later be installed in the car in September. As I understand it, this is the last package. And after that, the team will fully focus on the 2024 car. This is good.

They aren’t “developing” anything for the MCL60 at this point… The package that will be introduced in September probably finished development in July before the Summer Break, it is under production now… The team should have shift focus from a design / development perspective to the 2024 car before shutdown

In my understanding, development includes the process of manufacturing parts. I do not separate them.
I understand perfectly well that, in general, development is a process of design, testing, and other things when the object does not physically exist yet. Then comes the production process. This is all clear. It doesn't change the essence for me. The latest updates will be brought a little later and this will complete the chassis upgrade process.

[SmallSoldier]

Well, those developments that are now at the development stage will later be installed in the car in September. As I understand it, this is the last package. And after that, the team will fully focus on the 2024 car. This is good.

They aren’t “developing” anything for the MCL60 at this point… The package that will be introduced in September probably finished development in July before the Summer Break, it is under production now… The team should have shift focus from a design / development perspective to the 2024 car before shutdown

In my understanding, development includes the process of manufacturing parts. I do not separate them.
I understand perfectly well that, in general, development is a process of design, testing, and other things when the object does not physically exist yet. Then comes the production process. This is all clear. It doesn't change the essence for me. The latest updates will be brought a little later and this will complete the chassis upgrade process.

Development does not include the production of parts… The point is that the team is already fully focused in regards to 2024… The manufacturing team may be finishing parts, but that’s because at this stage of the 2024 there aren’t that many new parts to build for that car.

[LionsHeart]

They aren’t “developing” anything for the MCL60 at this point… The package that will be introduced in September probably finished development in July before the Summer Break, it is under production now… The team should have shift focus from a design / development perspective to the 2024 car before shutdown

In my understanding, development includes the process of manufacturing parts. I do not separate them.
I understand perfectly well that, in general, development is a process of design, testing, and other things when the object does not physically exist yet. Then comes the production process. This is all clear. It doesn't change the essence for me. The latest updates will be brought a little later and this will complete the chassis upgrade process.

Development does not include the production of parts… The point is that the team is already fully focused in regards to 2024… The manufacturing team may be finishing parts, but that’s because at this stage of the 2024 there aren’t that many new parts to build for that car.

Well, I don't argue with that. I just simply noted that for myself I do not share these concepts. For me, development is a process from start to finish (until the final receipt of the product in physical format).

[mwillems]

Thanks. Now I’ve leant Italian I realise the article is a regurgitation of what I posted the other day.

What I find interesting is and I’ve read Stella being quoted his a few times is they see no benefit to bring any new parts to the MCL60 that were developed for the 2024 machine yet Aston Martin say the opposite and that they will keep developing the ‘23 car with upgrades which have been developed for the ‘24 car?

I can only guess that there is enough difference that the 24 car can't plug parts into this years car.

Doesn't have to be significant, just enough that they aren't directly compatible. Much like most of last years parts couldn't be taken, as they'd need to work with the package.

There's no absolutes though, I'm sure that if they saw something that would offer a big update for little effort then why not.

I suppose they don't want to show their hand either if they think they are being original.

You are on the money… On one side, the parts work in unison, so if there are any kind of chassis changes for 2024 for example, they won’t work on the MCL60… On the other hand, it is a matter of iterations and if they continue to find gains from the concept, there is no point bringing parts that could be developed further… Finally, you have the budget cap, at certain point you can keep producing parts if you need to stay in within the cap and give yourself room for any eventuality (like a big crash that requires several parts to be manufactured)

Does it need to be the chassis, you think SS?

Look at the floor and the sidepods and how in tune they need to be directly. The underlying chassis could be the same but if the philosophy/concept has changed even subtly then parts could become incompatible on that basis alone I guess.

I do think that this formula is one of fine margins finding the time, with the floor geometries being a great example. It's a much more subtle formula.

[Darth-Piekus]

There is always the Red Bull way to overbudget but at this point its not gonna offer anything spectacular not to mention Mclaren is a team that wins fair and square.

[mwillems]

In my understanding, development includes the process of manufacturing parts. I do not separate them.
I understand perfectly well that, in general, development is a process of design, testing, and other things when the object does not physically exist yet. Then comes the production process. This is all clear. It doesn't change the essence for me. The latest updates will be brought a little later and this will complete the chassis upgrade process.

Development does not include the production of parts… The point is that the team is already fully focused in regards to 2024… The manufacturing team may be finishing parts, but that’s because at this stage of the 2024 there aren’t that many new parts to build for that car.

Well, I don't argue with that. I just simply noted that for myself I do not share these concepts. For me, development is a process from start to finish (until the final receipt of the product in physical format).

When you hear Stella discussing these things, development is everything in the process up to sign off, which is to say it has been signed off/released to be manufactured. Manufacturing will continue for various reasons after development. The new floor and Sidepods are not ready for instance, new parts will be required to fix damage or wear and tear.

The manufacturing team will be slowing down after the final update up until the new prototype design for the 24 car is ready to be produced for initial tunnel testing later in the year. Well, probably in a couple of months.

[SmallSoldier]

I can only guess that there is enough difference that the 24 car can't plug parts into this years car.

Doesn't have to be significant, just enough that they aren't directly compatible. Much like most of last years parts couldn't be taken, as they'd need to work with the package.

There's no absolutes though, I'm sure that if they saw something that would offer a big update for little effort then why not.

I suppose they don't want to show their hand either if they think they are being original.

You are on the money… On one side, the parts work in unison, so if there are any kind of chassis changes for 2024 for example, they won’t work on the MCL60… On the other hand, it is a matter of iterations and if they continue to find gains from the concept, there is no point bringing parts that could be developed further… Finally, you have the budget cap, at certain point you can keep producing parts if you need to stay in within the cap and give yourself room for any eventuality (like a big crash that requires several parts to be manufactured)

Does it need to be the chassis, you think SS?

Look at the floor and the sidepods and how in tune they need to be directly. The underlying chassis could be the same but if the philosophy/concept has changed even subtly then parts could become incompatible on that basis alone I guess.

I do think that this formula is one of fine margins finding the time, with the floor geometries being a great example. It's a much more subtle formula.

My guess is that for the new concept to be optimized, chassis changes will be required… relocating and rerouting cooling systems for example may require changes to the tub, we’ve seeing that the SIPS are not optimally placed for the current floor, therefore the covers and bulge required which may not allow to manage the flow over the floor as good they want to.

The new concept that they developed had to be integrated into he current tub, since the cost for a new tub would have been a problem under the budget cap, it is sensible to wait until 2024 to optimize it to the current concept… This is in addition to any potential improvements in terms of suspension layout that will also require changes.

My guess is that the new concept is compromised by having to adapt it to the current chassis, the chassis itself wasn’t created considering the current concept (they found the new direction too late in the process)… But this is just my guess based on the changes we’ve seeing since it was introduced.

[SmallSoldier]

Development does not include the production of parts… The point is that the team is already fully focused in regards to 2024… The manufacturing team may be finishing parts, but that’s because at this stage of the 2024 there aren’t that many new parts to build for that car.

Well, I don't argue with that. I just simply noted that for myself I do not share these concepts. For me, development is a process from start to finish (until the final receipt of the product in physical format).

When you hear Stella discussing these things, development is everything in the process up to sign off, which is to say it has been signed off/released to be manufactured. Manufacturing will continue for various reasons after development. The new floor and Sidepods are not ready for instance, new parts will be required to fix damage or wear and tear.

The manufacturing team will be slowing down after the final update up until the new prototype design for the 24 car is ready to be produced for initial tunnel testing later in the year. Well, probably in a couple of months.

And the team will delay that until the last possible second, every new iteration brings gains and there is no point in building something as long as you are still finding gains… It has always been this way, but it is extremely important now that you have a budget cap to adhere to, efficiency is the name of the game at this stage of the current regulations.

[LionsHeart]

Development does not include the production of parts… The point is that the team is already fully focused in regards to 2024… The manufacturing team may be finishing parts, but that’s because at this stage of the 2024 there aren’t that many new parts to build for that car.

Well, I don't argue with that. I just simply noted that for myself I do not share these concepts. For me, development is a process from start to finish (until the final receipt of the product in physical format).

When you hear Stella discussing these things, development is everything in the process up to sign off, which is to say it has been signed off/released to be manufactured. Manufacturing will continue for various reasons after development. The new floor and Sidepods are not ready for instance, new parts will be required to fix damage or wear and tear.

The manufacturing team will be slowing down after the final update up until the new prototype design for the 24 car is ready to be produced for initial tunnel testing later in the year. Well, probably in a couple of months.

That's right. Everything is exactly like that. I am not arguing about this. It's just that earlier in my childhood, when I could invent something, like a hand planer made of wood, the process of designing and modeling took a couple of minutes in my head, then I started production.

If in the process I realized that I was going in the wrong direction, then I tried to make adjustments locally and then continued to work. If the workpiece was already damaged, then he began to do everything again. The design process in this format runs parallel to the production process. This is a normal creative process. Therefore, in my old habit, I do not separate the modeling-development process from the production process.

From the moment an idea comes in, to the completion of all the work and the final product or result, as you wish, for me it's all a development process. In large structures, factories, where many engineers, mechanics, technologists work, everything is different. All processes and stages are described. And there it takes a lot of time from the beginning of the idea to the final one, when the production is completed.

I understand that if the team wants to bring an updated bottom and other body elements to the track in September, then the development process went on in June-July until the summer break. Also, before the summer break, the production process could begin, I’m not sure about this for sure, but some of the elements could be made in time.

[LionsHeart]

I am very happy to hear that the modernization process is nearing completion. The team will have more time to develop the 2024 car. It could also mean that next year's chassis will have some differences in both chassis, mechanics and aero. I think that there will be a lot of changes and it will not be possible to use elements of 2023 on a 2024 car.

Stella said he was very pleased with the correlation and accuracy of the data in the new wind tunnel. I think the spring test runs on the 2021 car were for a purpose. Get fresh data from the 2021 car, compare it with the data the team received in 2021. Next, use 60% of the 2021 car model in the new wind tunnel. Perhaps the correlation process proceeded in this way. I don't know how they actually did it.

The process is quite complex. In real life, you have to take into account the bumpiness of the tracks, the angle of rotation of the front wheels, the deformation of the tires, the conditions with a side wind. Everything will affect the real track, it's good if these things can be reproduced at least partially in a wind tunnel and using other tools.

[mwillems]

You are on the money… On one side, the parts work in unison, so if there are any kind of chassis changes for 2024 for example, they won’t work on the MCL60… On the other hand, it is a matter of iterations and if they continue to find gains from the concept, there is no point bringing parts that could be developed further… Finally, you have the budget cap, at certain point you can keep producing parts if you need to stay in within the cap and give yourself room for any eventuality (like a big crash that requires several parts to be manufactured)

Does it need to be the chassis, you think SS?

Look at the floor and the sidepods and how in tune they need to be directly. The underlying chassis could be the same but if the philosophy/concept has changed even subtly then parts could become incompatible on that basis alone I guess.

I do think that this formula is one of fine margins finding the time, with the floor geometries being a great example. It's a much more subtle formula.

My guess is that for the new concept to be optimized, chassis changes will be required… relocating and rerouting cooling systems for example may require changes to the tub, we’ve seeing that the SIPS are not optimally placed for the current floor, therefore the covers and bulge required which may not allow to manage the flow over the floor as good they want to.

The new concept that they developed had to be integrated into he current tub, since the cost for a new tub would have been a problem under the budget cap, it is sensible to wait until 2024 to optimize it to the current concept… This is in addition to any potential improvements in terms of suspension layout that will also require changes.

My guess is that the new concept is compromised by having to adapt it to the current chassis, the chassis itself wasn’t created considering the current concept (they found the new direction too late in the process)… But this is just my guess based on the changes we’ve seeing since it was introduced.

I agree, although I wasn't aware about the compromise I was aware of the SIPS. I think the chassis will change and we will perhaps see a slightly lengthened wheelbase.. but my point was less what needs to change and more that the chassis alone doesn't need to change for the parts to not be compatible as the formula is more sensitive to change than ever.