2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[djos]

McLaren really need to stop shafting Oscar. It’s becoming a pattern! He’s consistently getting the upgrades later than Lando, and even worse, getting shafted on pit strategy when he is the leading car on track.

If they keep this up, they might lose Oscar to another team.

If there is only one upgrade package, it is common sense to give it to:

A) The driver with the most experience
B) The driver that is leading in the season

There is nothing about “shafting” Oscar… It is simply the current pecking order and it’s warranted based only on results.

I don’t have a problem with the upgrade policy, on its own.

But combine it with multiple recent instances of Lando getting the favourable pit strategy, when Oscar was leading on track, and it doesn’t look good IMO!

Oscar might be a rookie, but he doesn’t deserve to be getting shafted like this.

[SmallSoldier]

McLaren really need to stop shafting Oscar. It’s becoming a pattern! He’s consistently getting the upgrades later than Lando, and even worse, getting shafted on pit strategy when he is the leading car on track.

If they keep this up, they might lose Oscar to another team.

If there is only one upgrade package, it is common sense to give it to:

A) The driver with the most experience
B) The driver that is leading in the season

There is nothing about “shafting” Oscar… It is simply the current pecking order and it’s warranted based only on results.

I don’t have a problem with the upgrade policy, on its own.

But combine it with multiple recent instances of Lando getting the favourable pit strategy, when Oscar was leading on track, and it doesn’t look good IMO!

Oscar might be a rookie, but he doesn’t deserve to be getting shafted like this.

I guess it’s a matter of opinion, I don’t think he is getting shafted… The 2 situations in which the strategy calls hasn’t favored him, where calls made for the benefit of the team, not a particular driver… They didn’t pit Lando first to “undercut” Oscar, they did it to cover on track situations and on Monza, an slower stop gave Lando that bit of an edge.

I don’t think decisions are been made to favor one driver or the other (on track) and even though the result isn’t pleasant for Oscar, I’m sure he understands that it’s not because of favoring Lando to gain one position at his expense… In Hungary, even though the Pit Stop favored Lando, the reality is that the on-track pace difference between them was huge… In Monza, it was due to cover an undercut to protect the Team’s result.

In regards to the upgrades, it is clear why Lando is the first to get them.

Oscar is an amazing talent, McLaren did a master stroke signing him… But just as McLaren was lucky to get him, Oscar has also been extremely lucky to end up at McLaren, he is been given a seat on a Team that allows him to shine compared to the field, which would have been very different had he stayed in Alpine and potentially driving for Williams (or Alpine themselves)… He is a fantastic rookie, maybe one of the best rookies in recent times, but still a rookie and will have to pay his dues, like almost every other rookie (bar Hamilton and Verstappen) have had to pay.

If he continues his upward trajectory, it wouldn’t surprise me if strategy calls and upgrades favor him, today is too early for that.

And if he is going to go, he is going to go… If he decides to go to Red Bull for example, he will clearly be a number 2 (until he can prove he shouldn’t be), it would be way worse over there for him since the pecking order is not only clearly defined, but also acted on in every situation.

[MrGapes]

Car was oddly unbalanced on the soft sim, don’t know if it was tyre preparation, but certainly more to be found there, similar to last year a chunk is lost in the last chicane, Lando matches Sainz until the last chicane and then loses half a second.

Race sim looked fine although very rear limited for everyone.. Lando spent quite a few laps behind Hamilton and Leclerc on both stints.. following as per usual around here looked quite bad.

I wonder why they opted for the older spec high def wing.

[BMMR61]

McLaren really need to stop shafting Oscar. It’s becoming a pattern! He’s consistently getting the upgrades later than Lando, and even worse, getting shafted on pit strategy when he is the leading car on track.

If they keep this up, they might lose Oscar to another team.

If there is only one upgrade package, it is common sense to give it to:

A) The driver with the most experience
B) The driver that is leading in the season

There is nothing about “shafting” Oscar… It is simply the current pecking order and it’s warranted based only on results.

I don’t have a problem with the upgrade policy, on its own.

But combine it with multiple recent instances of Lando getting the favourable pit strategy, when Oscar was leading on track, and it doesn’t look good IMO!

Oscar might be a rookie, but he doesn’t deserve to be getting shafted like this.

Oh stop it! Do you really think that the various motivations aren't discussed privately with both drivers. Oscar is a very clever lad who, rather than getting grumpy, knows that he is part of the team game. There's good reason to run one old spec car for comparison when there's a major upgrade as happened in Austria and here at Singapore. Consider how Aston Martin got lost with upgrades after their good start to the season. Verifying the progress along with detailed data gained from the traces of two very similar drivers will be benefiting the car performance now and in the coming races.

The pit strategies that turned out to favour Lando were well explained. At Hungary Lando had speed in reserve behind Oscar so it worked well until OP damaged his floor. Really there's a lot of hysteria in the social media as we have come to expect. The calm and reasoned voice of Stella behind closed doors will be "pouring oil" on any feelings of disillusionment if they even exist. As an Oscar fan since before his McLaren drive was announced, I am naturally disappointed for him, and the short term benefit for the team this weekend. Silverstone was brilliant after Lando had bedded in the upgrades and I'm sure the same will be the case at Suzuka where Oscar will shine (again).

[djos]

If there is only one upgrade package, it is common sense to give it to:

A) The driver with the most experience
B) The driver that is leading in the season

There is nothing about “shafting” Oscar… It is simply the current pecking order and it’s warranted based only on results.

I don’t have a problem with the upgrade policy, on its own.

But combine it with multiple recent instances of Lando getting the favourable pit strategy, when Oscar was leading on track, and it doesn’t look good IMO!

Oscar might be a rookie, but he doesn’t deserve to be getting shafted like this.

Oh stop it!

The pit strategies that turned out to favour Lando were well explained. At Hungary Lando had speed in reserve behind Oscar so it worked well until OP damaged his floor. Really there's a lot of hysteria in the social media as we have come to expect. The calm and reasoned voice of Stella behind closed doors will be "pouring oil" on any feelings of disillusionment if they even exist. As an Oscar fan since before his McLaren drive was announced, I am naturally disappointed for him, and the short term benefit for the team this weekend. Silverstone was brilliant after Lando had bedded in the upgrades and I'm sure the same will be the case at Suzuka where Oscar will shine (again).

No.

No they weren't, the explanations were BS. If Lando was actually faster, the Team should have swapped them on track instead of wrecking Oscars race with poor pit strategy.

[MrGapes]

I don’t have a problem with the upgrade policy, on its own.

But combine it with multiple recent instances of Lando getting the favourable pit strategy, when Oscar was leading on track, and it doesn’t look good IMO!

Oscar might be a rookie, but he doesn’t deserve to be getting shafted like this.

Oh stop it!

The pit strategies that turned out to favour Lando were well explained. At Hungary Lando had speed in reserve behind Oscar so it worked well until OP damaged his floor. Really there's a lot of hysteria in the social media as we have come to expect. The calm and reasoned voice of Stella behind closed doors will be "pouring oil" on any feelings of disillusionment if they even exist. As an Oscar fan since before his McLaren drive was announced, I am naturally disappointed for him, and the short term benefit for the team this weekend. Silverstone was brilliant after Lando had bedded in the upgrades and I'm sure the same will be the case at Suzuka where Oscar will shine (again).

No.

No they weren't, the explanations were BS. If Lando was actually faster, the Team should have swapped them on track instead of wrecking Oscars race with poor pit strategy.

You have to understand swapping on track is not feasible in a race where tenths matter, swapping can cost seconds.

[djos]

Oh stop it!

The pit strategies that turned out to favour Lando were well explained. At Hungary Lando had speed in reserve behind Oscar so it worked well until OP damaged his floor. Really there's a lot of hysteria in the social media as we have come to expect. The calm and reasoned voice of Stella behind closed doors will be "pouring oil" on any feelings of disillusionment if they even exist. As an Oscar fan since before his McLaren drive was announced, I am naturally disappointed for him, and the short term benefit for the team this weekend. Silverstone was brilliant after Lando had bedded in the upgrades and I'm sure the same will be the case at Suzuka where Oscar will shine (again).

No.

No they weren't, the explanations were BS. If Lando was actually faster, the Team should have swapped them on track instead of wrecking Oscars race with poor pit strategy.

You have to understand swapping on track is not feasible in a race where tenths matter, swapping can cost seconds.

It still doesnt explain the poor pit strategy - it's not like Oscar got pitted the next lap after Lando. In both the instances, they left him out for so long that he not only lost out to Lando, but to other drivers who were also able to undercut him.

[Ben1980]

The team does what they think is best for the team. As Stella said, if drivers don't like it, then they aren't thinking about the team. Which would indicate that if they aren't thinking about the team they shouldn't be on the team.

But, I think Oscar knows his position as the rookie, behind his teammate in points and qualifying. He doesn't seem like one to rock the apple cart, at this stage of his career at least.

If anyone thinks they have some anti Oscar agenda in the team, give your head a wobble.

[MrGapes]

After looking at the race sim in depth I think the pace may actually be quite good in race trim.

If we use the Haas cars as a reference, Magnussen ran the softs and Hulk the mediums for the race sims, their times were very quite similar throughout, which suggest the delta between the two compounds is quite similar.

On Lando's inlap (7th lap) of his soft stint his delta was around -0.15 (before pitting) to his fastest lap of that stint of a 1.37.8.

There are a lot of variables that can skew this data, but even visually the car looked good during the race sim.

But all of this doesn't matter if you don't qualify well

[djos]

The team does what they think is best for the team. As Stella said, if drivers don't like it, then they aren't thinking about the team. Which would indicate that if they aren't thinking about the team they shouldn't be on the team.

But, I think Oscar knows his position as the rookie, behind his teammate in points and qualifying. He doesn't seem like one to rock the apple cart, at this stage of his career at least.

If anyone thinks they have some anti Oscar agenda in the team, give your head a wobble.

I’m not saying they are biased against Oscar, they are biased towards Lando. Quite different!

The golden rule of F1 teams has always been to pit the driver in the best on track position first. McLaren hand have actually lost WCC points by favouring Lando to this extent. That’s just a fact.

Btw, AT managed to bring their big upgrade for both drivers, it doesn’t look great that McLaren couldn’t manage this.

[MrGapes]

The team does what they think is best for the team. As Stella said, if drivers don't like it, then they aren't thinking about the team. Which would indicate that if they aren't thinking about the team they shouldn't be on the team.

But, I think Oscar knows his position as the rookie, behind his teammate in points and qualifying. He doesn't seem like one to rock the apple cart, at this stage of his career at least.

If anyone thinks they have some anti Oscar agenda in the team, give your head a wobble.

I’m not saying they are biased against Oscar, they are biased towards Lando. Quite different!

The golden rule of F1 teams has always been to pit the driver in the best on track position first. McLaren hand have actually lost WCC points by favouring Lando to this extent. That’s just a fact.

Btw, AT managed to bring their big upgrade for both drivers, it doesn’t look great that McLaren couldn’t manage this.

I'm not going to reply to the two parts above because you are just being ridiculous.

yes its crazy a team that has brought more upgrades than the top teams combined couldn't managed to bring another large package all at once.

[djos]

The team does what they think is best for the team. As Stella said, if drivers don't like it, then they aren't thinking about the team. Which would indicate that if they aren't thinking about the team they shouldn't be on the team.

But, I think Oscar knows his position as the rookie, behind his teammate in points and qualifying. He doesn't seem like one to rock the apple cart, at this stage of his career at least.

If anyone thinks they have some anti Oscar agenda in the team, give your head a wobble.

I’m not saying they are biased against Oscar, they are biased towards Lando. Quite different!

The golden rule of F1 teams has always been to pit the driver in the best on track position first. McLaren hand have actually lost WCC points by favouring Lando to this extent. That’s just a fact.

Btw, AT managed to bring their big upgrade for both drivers, it doesn’t look great that McLaren couldn’t manage this.

I'm not going to reply to the two parts above because you are just being ridiculous.

yes its crazy a team that has brought more upgrades than the top teams combined couldn't managed to bring another large package all at once.

AT managed to bring their big updates for both cars both times this year - McLaren have been bringing their big updates one car at a time for several years now.

[FittingMechanics]

I'm sure McLaren could have brought upgrade to both in Japan and no one would have complained, but I think it is good that the team is aggressive in pushing forward upgrades. It shows that they think upgrade has a lot of potential and that they learn more sooner by bringing it earlier. AT bringing both does not mean anything other than that they are not pushing upgrades as soon as possible.

Lando gets it because he is more experienced and thua better development reference. I'm sure if things were equal the team would alternate who gets the upgrades first.

It is quite annoying to see complaints that the team is favoring Lando when that is not the case, all instances had legitimate team reasons for doing it way they did.

[mwillems]

I've been arguing for ages that Mechanical and Aero work together and so one could make up some of the deficiencies in the other and that I think that this car's front issue was more Aero related. I recall having this discussion with someone else at Monza also where I suggested that the chicanes wouldn't be as straight forward an issue as you'd think, and it came to pass that the car was passable in the chicane, but awful on entry,

I think yesterday with Lionsheart I also made that point that since once can make up the deficiencies of the other it still doesn't mean that the mechanical elements of the front of the car aren't holding back what is now amazing front aero.

Yes, today the thought also occurred to me that there is no need to separate mechanics and aerodynamics. Everything works together.

I said before the Austrian update that I hope that in that package should also be an update to the font suspension,because I read that Newey himself design the front and rear suspension at Redbull,and I thought that it might be pretty significant if that's the case.
Welcome to the same conclusion 3 months later

It helps to have a memory on here, because LionsHeart was also thinking there would be a suspension update and was hoping to have one, around Austria when discussions were ongoing about the other 50% of the upgrade. He and I disagreed because I thought they would bring it only with a new chassis.

Welcome to the conversation 3 months later

[mwillems]

McLaren really need to stop shafting Oscar. It’s becoming a pattern! He’s consistently getting the upgrades later than Lando, and even worse, getting shafted on pit strategy when he is the leading car on track.

If they keep this up, they might lose Oscar to another team.

On track when he is leading for the team is one thing, but giving the update to the guy leading the standings and more experienced with the car is common sense. He understands how to communicate better with the engineers, understands the components better and has a finer ability for recognising behaviours of the car and describing them. Plus, he's earnt it from his position in the table.


I agree about not giving him pit priority when he is leading in the race when the strategic gains are marginal but his losses tangible, but this is a totally different matter.