German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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roost89
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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n smikle wrote:
roost89 wrote:
n smikle wrote:WEbber finally broke ducks. He is now 2nd in championship.. I always wonder why people were putting Vettel to challenge it instead of Webber when the points between them were so close.

Hey, anybody knows what happened to Hamilton? How was his tyre destroyed?
He clipped the front wing of Webber at the first turn.
The wing bursts the back tyre and the wing wasn't damaged? Hmm, something is fishy.
The wing was damaged. To be more specific the end-plate was damaged. Replays show carbon fibre flying off and then Lewis' right rear deflating.
Last edited by roost89 on 12 Jul 2009, 16:38, edited 1 time in total.
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green

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djos
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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What a fantastic Race, even the over-zealous Stewards couldn't stop Mark from getting his 1st win!!! =D>

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StrFerrari4Ever
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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Get in there brilliant stuff thoroughly deserved that did Webber that drive through was bad but he overcame it thanks to Brawn not being fast enough and effing themselves in the ass. He was consistent didn't show any nerves and the emotion at the end on the team radio was awesome Vettel 2nd place is good considering that horrible start 3 way race anyone? :P & ESPImperium i agree with him where he says
Red Bull will bring STR into play now, the more cars in the top 10 the better, as i can see it being a Red Bull/Button 3 way at the end of the season.
this is true if Red Bull want to get maximum points in both championships shifting updates to Toro Rosso faster will help them as both their teams could lock out the first 2 rows. I mean today Brawns race was comrpomised by other cars like Ferrari's if Red Bull bring Toro Rosso into play Brawn will get nervous and get low points finishes as Toro Rosso progress the momentum is with the Bull's :D

ESPImperium
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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Red Bull need STR, if they can put even Buemi up there in third place, it will deny Button more points than he otherwise could get, and with Ferrari and McLaren resurgance with the Toyotas meddeling, even Alonso and Sutil and Rosberg up there as well, this could make the Brawns nervous. And with Rubens feeling the pressure and his general mental state at the moment, at least after what he said to lee McKenzie after this race, he will be the one to crack i feel, meaning that Button would have to do it on a one man show basis from Brawn.

Those STR4 need the full RB5 performance update, add in a little car setup support, they will be up at the front with Buemi, like what Vettel drove like last year in the second half of the season.

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StrFerrari4Ever
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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Exactly my thoughts it's been frustrating seeing STR struggling at the back when last year they were in the top 6 so from Hungary onwards i'm expecting a resurgence from Toro Rosso they do need car setup support so they are guaranteed of being up front with their sister team RBR. And your right saying Brawn will get nervous as the other teams catch up and Rubinho seeming dillusioned Button will have to do it by himself and without Rubens brilliant setups he'll struggle. So Red Bull need to sit down and discuss this and look at all these possible gains from helping Toro Rosso more!! :D

andartop
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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Arguably the most interesting race weekend thus far this season, I really hope the remaining GPs will be as spectacular as this one.
It really had it all: qualifying rain drama, McLaren resurrected, people spinning during the warm up lap, first pole and a well deserved win for Webber, a few nice overtakes, good and bad strategic calls, Hamilton playing Tarzan in the first corner (again) and ruining his own race, an unnecessary(?) penalty that thankfully was not enough to determine the result, excellent races from Massa and Rosberg, Michael Schumacher's presence somehow causing another DNF for Kimi (I wonder how long it will take for Ferrari to actually see what's happening there), Rubens crying at the media again (is another book on the way?), and a fastest lap from Alonso(!!!).
Keep it up guys, let's have both Championships decided in the last race!
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

ESPImperium
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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Personally, i cant see Rubens finishing this season. I think that he is looking to try and finish in Brazil, his home race, leaving Antony Davidson to jump in the car at Yas Island.

But if he comes out with outbursts like today, his days are numbered. As EJ said, he would have sacked him for that outburst for bringing the team into dis-repute. And Frank Williams said that it was a definate red card moment.

Another story of this weekend was the Stewards; penalising Glock for Blocking Alonso in Q1, Fining Red Bull after a "unsafe realease in the pits" of Vettel, their bad showing in the GP2 support races and Porsche Supercup and Formula BMW, not to mention their poor decision with Webbers drive thru penalty. Altho nothing came of it as of yet, i feel that Kimi has a 10 place grid drop coming at Hungary for him "destroying" Sutils race again.

Im just waiting to get ahold of the technial report for the race for the engine data.

vall
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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some will not like it, but I want to rise the DDD issue again. It was amazing how in the late stages Alonso was closing by almost 2 sec per lap on the Brawns, and yet one he was close behind Rubens, he could not do anything!!! He could not even get close enough to try to overtake him! I really hope they will ban those DDDs next year. Otherwise, it was exiting race. I hope there will be more like that to come. Hungary may be a boring track but it often offers lots of action.

roost89
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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vall wrote:some will not like it, but I want to rise the DDD issue again. It was amazing how in the late stages Alonso was closing by almost 2 sec per lap on the Brawns, and yet one he was close behind Rubens, he could not do anything!!! He could not even get close enough to try to overtake him! I really hope they will ban those DDDs next year. Otherwise, it was exiting race. I hope there will be more like that to come. Hungary may be a boring track but it often offers lots of action.
That's always been the problem...cars have been able to get close to another car then get stuck in the turbulent air. It wasn't a problem in the past so why is it a problem now?

In my opinion, the racing was good and more overtaking will detract from the sight and awe of watching the cars overtake, the difficulty is what makes it so good to watch!

Sam Michael of Williams holds a similar view:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76487

If you are wanting to ban aerodynamic aids with a view to greater overtaking have a look at this or if you wish to make it better and more fun why not follow what Lewis Hamilton said on friday
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green

vasia
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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Awesome race by Red Bull. Red Bull was very lucky with the weather, as that certainly helped their performance. Great job by Webber, he deserved it.

Extremely frustrating qualifying from Toyota, especially given the fact that both Toyotas were fast during the race. Toyota really needs to get their act together. They have a Top-6 car and are not using it's potential.

Decent job by Renault, but let's see if this translates into strong performances at other tracks. Great job by Williams, they really seem to be improving and they deserve it. Decent job by Ferrari as well. Dissapointing for FI and BMW but not surprised. Also not surprised at Hamilton's incident; his super-aggressive driving once again got him into a troublesome situation.
ESPImperium wrote:Congrats Webbo. 102nd diffrent winner in Formula 1.

And for the rest of the season, its gonna be a bloody brilliant end to ths season, just as good as the start of this season.

Red Bull will bring STR into play now, the more cars in the top 10 the better, as i can see it being a Red Bull/Button 3 way at the end of the season.

Brawn will have to try and get something that can make their car better now.

But Webbo, after arround 250 Grand Prix he gets a win.

Shame Suitil gets booted by Kimi again, hope Kimi gets a 10 penalty at Valencia. Force India are the most improved team this season.
Depends how you look at it. They still scored zero points so far. I'm not quite sure I follow this logic. I would argue that McLaren is the most improved team, or possibly Ferrari.
StrFerrari4Ever wrote:Get in there brilliant stuff thoroughly deserved that did Webber that drive through was bad but he overcame it thanks to Brawn not being fast enough and effing themselves in the ass. He was consistent didn't show any nerves and the emotion at the end on the team radio was awesome Vettel 2nd place is good considering that horrible start 3 way race anyone? :P & ESPImperium i agree with him where he says
Red Bull will bring STR into play now, the more cars in the top 10 the better, as i can see it being a Red Bull/Button 3 way at the end of the season.
this is true if Red Bull want to get maximum points in both championships shifting updates to Toro Rosso faster will help them as both their teams could lock out the first 2 rows. I mean today Brawns race was comrpomised by other cars like Ferrari's if Red Bull bring Toro Rosso into play Brawn will get nervous and get low points finishes as Toro Rosso progress the momentum is with the Bull's :D
Likely that is not going to happen. If Red Bull focuses on giving more updates to STR, then they shift focus away from their cars and risk falling back in the Championship race. Red Bull cannot afford to focus too much on helping STR if they want to win either championship.
StrFerrari4Ever wrote:Exactly my thoughts it's been frustrating seeing STR struggling at the back when last year they were in the top 6 so from Hungary onwards i'm expecting a resurgence from Toro Rosso they do need car setup support so they are guaranteed of being up front with their sister team RBR. And your right saying Brawn will get nervous as the other teams catch up and Rubinho seeming dillusioned Button will have to do it by himself and without Rubens brilliant setups he'll struggle. So Red Bull need to sit down and discuss this and look at all these possible gains from helping Toro Rosso more!! :D
STR did not deserve to be in the Top 6 last year, not quite sure how they were. I think it was mainly thanks to Vettel. This is just karma coming back to bite them. Also keep in mind STR must develop their own car for next year; they can no longer rely on being spoon-fed by Red Bull.
ESPImperium wrote:Personally, i cant see Rubens finishing this season. I think that he is looking to try and finish in Brazil, his home race, leaving Antony Davidson to jump in the car at Yas Island.

But if he comes out with outbursts like today, his days are numbered. As EJ said, he would have sacked him for that outburst for bringing the team into dis-repute. And Frank Williams said that it was a definate red card moment.

Another story of this weekend was the Stewards; penalising Glock for Blocking Alonso in Q1, Fining Red Bull after a "unsafe realease in the pits" of Vettel, their bad showing in the GP2 support races and Porsche Supercup and Formula BMW, not to mention their poor decision with Webbers drive thru penalty. Altho nothing came of it as of yet, i feel that Kimi has a 10 place grid drop coming at Hungary for him "destroying" Sutils race again.

Im just waiting to get ahold of the technial report for the race for the engine data.
Due to Ferrari bias and influence, Kimi probably won't get a penalty.
vall wrote:some will not like it, but I want to rise the DDD issue again. It was amazing how in the late stages Alonso was closing by almost 2 sec per lap on the Brawns, and yet one he was close behind Rubens, he could not do anything!!! He could not even get close enough to try to overtake him! I really hope they will ban those DDDs next year. Otherwise, it was exiting race. I hope there will be more like that to come. Hungary may be a boring track but it often offers lots of action.
Why don't we ban everything innovative then? By that logic, I hope they ban KERS too as KERS makes it even more difficult to overtake than a DDD. But KERS is gone for 2010 already, only have to put up with it for the rest of the season.

Miguel
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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vasia wrote:Why don't we ban everything innovative then? By that logic, I hope they ban KERS too as KERS makes it even more difficult to overtake than a DDD. But KERS is gone for 2010 already, only have to put up with it for the rest of the season.
The issue with the DDD is that the rule changes we had last year concerning the rear wing and the diffuser intended to decouple these devices. It seems that DDDs go against this spirit. IMHO, the diffuser ruling was right... but DDDs should have been banned directly for 2010.

And yes, KERS is useless for everything but the starts and defending position.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr

andartop
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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vasia wrote:Due to Ferrari bias and influence, Kimi probably won't get a penalty.
Sutil said about the incident:
"When I went out of the pitlane I saw Kimi coming on the outside of the corner and I just tried to hold my line but he went to the outside and I touched him and lost part of my front wing."

Kimi said:
"It was a normal racing thing. We both tried to keep the place and I tried to take him outside, and he kept trying keep the place. Unfortunately we touched and he lost the front wing. There was nothing out of the ordinary, it was just a normal racing incident and a small touch, but for him it was not so good."

The stewards decided not to punish anyone for this incident, as they agreed with both drivers involved that it was a racing incident. No bias, no influence, no Sasquatch or Elvis helping Ferrari. End of story.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

woohoo
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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BMW: from potential top team to potential backmarker. [-X

Kubica made one the best starts of his career, better even than Monza in 2006, and his 10 place was lost to 14th because the tires were not balanced.

Can it possibly get any worse ?

[edit: spelling]
Last edited by woohoo on 12 Jul 2009, 22:00, edited 1 time in total.
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timbo
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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vasia wrote:Due to Ferrari bias and influence, Kimi probably won't get a penalty.
FIA Ferrari influence?
Don't tell me you live in time capsule :P

modbaraban
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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It was Sutil's fault. His wing penalized him for being unable to stick to the inner line. Kime even left the track to go around him, but that wasn't enough, as the VJM kept understeering into his sidepod.

PS: Adrian wasn't penalized due to FIA Force-india influence :mrgreen: