2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[trinidefender]

For everyone here. The term cutout keeps being used. What exactly are you referring to? I think I understand what you mean but want to be sure.

As far as I can tell the Singapore wing and this one looks the same but to be honest I haven't poured over every single detail

[LionsHeart]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6io2DSbEAA ... name=large

Different wing to Singapore or Silverstone. It is a Med DF Wing and an evolution of the Zandvoort wing.



it is the Zandvoort wing, but you can see how modular the rear wing is now. Those upper element side extensions are interchangeable and they swapped out the sides that were rounded for ones that will create a vortex. It is the only difference I can see with my dodgy 46 year old eyes.

https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/images/amp ... l60-1.webp

Listen, can the team easily vary the types of beam wings with any rear wing or are they designed in one piece?

I look at this zone and see exactly the same beam wing as the week before. It is loaded, but does not have high drag.

From what we've seen they can design a package and work out which work best to bring to a track. In reality if they don't bring a track specific wing they sometimes trial different BW like Ferrari did with the Double and Single element BW at Monza.

But this wing has been tested and I think they will understand what it needs.

Again, it looks to me like a Medium DF wing and I think Stella did say something along the lines of the big wing is offset by the cutout which lowers downforce but gives you a better overall DF/Drag ratio.

So this wasn't maximum downforce at Singapore which might explain why the high speed corners weren't as great as they could be. The solution seems totally appropriate for Suzuka.

Such a wing cannot be called for average downforce. More like medium-high as required in Bahrain. And yes, I also assume that it produces less downforce than the Monaco wing.

[LionsHeart]

For everyone here. The term cutout keeps being used. What exactly are you referring to? I think I understand what you mean but want to be sure.

As far as I can tell the Singapore wing and this one looks the same but to be honest I haven't poured over every single detail

The cut may vary. Top flap cutout, end plate cutout. Typically, the cutout is used to reduce drag at the cost of less downforce.

[LionsHeart]

It's worth considering that Singapore, with the changes to the track layout, is no longer a high DF track.

Two 90 degree corners were removed to leave one long straight, changing the balance requirements between speed and DF. Lap times were around 15 seconds faster than last years fastest dry time in Friday practise. So perhaps 10s quicker in Qualy trim. Average circuit speed would be noticeably higher, as well as % time on Full throttle.

Correction: four 90 degree turns have been removed.

[LionsHeart]

To be helpful, this is the rear wing shot from Monaco and the headline as that Mclaren were not running a High DF wing because we didn't have one. The Zandvoort/Singapore/Suzuka wing looks like just changes to the cutout from the wing used at Monaco. We are definitively Medium DF Wing at Suzuka. But bear in mind the floor should be producing more DF also, we don't need as much wing here.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fw-gq8mWAAA ... ame=medium

This is where I disagree. The transition of the main plate to the end plate, as well as the area and thickness of the main plate for Monaco, is significantly greater than the Zandvoort wing. But at the same time, I can’t say that the wing for Zandvoort (with whom Oscar rode in the first practice) is for average downforce. I think here we can talk about a complete change of concept, but this will only become clear next year in Monaco.

At this point in time I don’t pretend to be the truth, but in the first practice (Zandvoort) it was possible to observe that at the start of the finish line Oscar had a significant speed advantage over Lando, but before the first turn the difference was insignificant. This seems to suggest that the new Zandvoort-Singapore wing creates less drag, but at the cost of a slight reduction in downforce.

[LionsHeart]

Off topic: I looked at Fabrega’s photos. Haas decided to imitate the Coanda effect by charging warm currents along the recesses to further energize the upper edge of the diffuser and the beam wing. This is about what I previously expected to see in McLaren side pontoons, but did not see.

[trinidefender]

For everyone here. The term cutout keeps being used. What exactly are you referring to? I think I understand what you mean but want to be sure.

As far as I can tell the Singapore wing and this one looks the same but to be honest I haven't poured over every single detail

The cut may vary. Top flap cutout, end plate cutout. Typically, the cutout is used to reduce drag at the cost of less downforce.

I know what removing part of the wing does as far as drag and down force. That's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking in this specific case, what part of the wing cutout are you referring to? The top of the endplates? I.e. the style of wing that was tested in, I believe, Zandvort but not raced with?

[trinidefender]

Off topic: I looked at Fabrega’s photos. Haas decided to imitate the Coanda effect by charging warm currents along the recesses to further energize the upper edge of the diffuser and the beam wing. This is about what I previously expected to see in McLaren side pontoons, but did not see.

The hot air coming out of the sidepod outlets? That's low energy airflow that they try to channel between the beam wing and the main plane of the rear wing with as little interaction with both as possible.

The free stream airflow will have higher energy.

Yes some energy will be released into the cooling airflow in the form of heat but this isn't enough to offset the energy removed by the radiators and ducting.

[mwillems]

Listen, can the team easily vary the types of beam wings with any rear wing or are they designed in one piece?

I look at this zone and see exactly the same beam wing as the week before. It is loaded, but does not have high drag.

From what we've seen they can design a package and work out which work best to bring to a track. In reality if they don't bring a track specific wing they sometimes trial different BW like Ferrari did with the Double and Single element BW at Monza.

But this wing has been tested and I think they will understand what it needs.

Again, it looks to me like a Medium DF wing and I think Stella did say something along the lines of the big wing is offset by the cutout which lowers downforce but gives you a better overall DF/Drag ratio.

So this wasn't maximum downforce at Singapore which might explain why the high speed corners weren't as great as they could be. The solution seems totally appropriate for Suzuka.

Such a wing cannot be called for average downforce. More like medium-high as required in Bahrain. And yes, I also assume that it produces less downforce than the Monaco wing.

Agree to disagree lol It may be Upper Medium, not sure. I'd imagine if we used variations of it in the season it is fairly balanced, the cutouts then lower the downforce but ultimately we don't know the numbers. But we can agree Singapore didn't use a high DF wing.

[mwillems]

For everyone here. The term cutout keeps being used. What exactly are you referring to? I think I understand what you mean but want to be sure.

As far as I can tell the Singapore wing and this one looks the same but to be honest I haven't poured over every single detail

I see your point. Yes the cutout was traditionally the squared cutout on the rear wing supports behind the top element , this has extended forward and underneat the winglets that used to connect to the rear wing supports. We may be using the wrong term!

[mwillems]

To be helpful, this is the rear wing shot from Monaco and the headline as that Mclaren were not running a High DF wing because we didn't have one. The Zandvoort/Singapore/Suzuka wing looks like just changes to the cutout from the wing used at Monaco. We are definitively Medium DF Wing at Suzuka. But bear in mind the floor should be producing more DF also, we don't need as much wing here.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fw-gq8mWAAA ... ame=medium

This is where I disagree. The transition of the main plate to the end plate, as well as the area and thickness of the main plate for Monaco, is significantly greater than the Zandvoort wing. But at the same time, I can’t say that the wing for Zandvoort (with whom Oscar rode in the first practice) is for average downforce. I think here we can talk about a complete change of concept, but this will only become clear next year in Monaco.

At this point in time I don’t pretend to be the truth, but in the first practice (Zandvoort) it was possible to observe that at the start of the finish line Oscar had a significant speed advantage over Lando, but before the first turn the difference was insignificant. This seems to suggest that the new Zandvoort-Singapore wing creates less drag, but at the cost of a slight reduction in downforce.

Yes you are right, the Monaco wing is thicker on the Main Plate (I was focussing on the top element!) but no difference I can see between Singapore and Suzuka and these two wings do seem to look like the Silverstone wing with some difference on the "winglet extensions" that sit aside the top element.

None the less, the other wings look to be trying to generate more DF so I struggle to see this current wing at Singapore and Suzuka as being more than Med DF since this is a smaller wing with the cutouts to lower DF and drag, especially in comparison to the Merc wing used at Monaco.

The point stands that Singapore was not using high DF wings and that this is a standard wing we'd used many times this season with the new winglets and the larger side cutout. You're largely right on the small detail but it doesn't change the outcome.

[trinidefender]

May I suggest we take these posts to the car thread? It would be better fitting there. I've made a post there to continue the conversation.

[mwillems]

May I suggest we take these posts to the car thread? It would be better fitting there. I've made a post there to continue the conversation.

Yeah sure, I think I was suggesting that Singapore wasn't using a high DF wing and that we've had the same wing for much of the season with a variation on those winglets and the cutout which turned into a converstion about Monaco's wing compared to Mecedes Monaco wing, to demonstrate a high DF wing and that fact we haven't really used a high DF wing this season.

But for me that's kinda done now.

[mwillems]

It's worth considering that Singapore, with the changes to the track layout, is no longer a high DF track.

Two 90 degree corners were removed to leave one long straight, changing the balance requirements between speed and DF. Lap times were around 15 seconds faster than last years fastest dry time in Friday practise. So perhaps 10s quicker in Qualy trim. Average circuit speed would be noticeably higher, as well as % time on Full throttle.

Correction: four 90 degree turns have been removed.

Ahahah yes! I'm thinking of it from a practical view, remove those two corners and draw a straight line between the tracks! It's the end of the day...

[Dafnalina]

Interesting. In Barcelona, we were the fastest in the high speed corners even with the old spe (in quali)