Their position on the grid and the massive field spread is just a reflection of how few competitive teams we had then. The fact is that the clear fastest car on the grid was all of a sudden 1,5 seconds off the pace.
Their position on the grid and the massive field spread is just a reflection of how few competitive teams we had then. The fact is that the clear fastest car on the grid was all of a sudden 1,5 seconds off the pace.
Monza cannot be used for the comparison as cars tend to run close there for the entire race.AR3-GP wrote: ↑21 Sep 2023, 19:59and they only won by 11 seconds in Monza. We are fortunate to have had Monza before the TD where they already didn't take pole because otherwise people would use Monza as evidence that they are no longer winning by 30 seconds after the TD.mkay wrote: ↑21 Sep 2023, 17:00Maybe but in recent GPs, RB won by 34 seconds in Hungary and 32 seconds at Spa, and would have won by close to 30 seconds in Austria if Max hadn't pitted to secure FL.AR3-GP wrote: ↑21 Sep 2023, 16:46
Singapore will have been one of Mclarens worst circuits though. They aren’t as strong as Ferrari in traction and braking. Well documented.
Suzuka will really be home for their car because of the high speed corners which their car excels at.
And likewise, Ferrari’s new floor doesn’t have to fix “all” of their problems. A 1 tenth upgrade adds up to a few seconds of race time improvement.
30 seconds is a pulled out of the arse number anyway. If Rb are still winning by that margin with their penalty and lack of upgrades, the others need to sell their teams.
The truth is disappointing. When Mercedes was 1.5 seconds off pole in 2015 without any regulations changes, no one bats and eye.
Japan historically has not trended towards massive gaps either. You won't find anyone winning from another team by 30 seconds in the last decade, even amongst the dominant Mercs and RBs that we came to know.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 03:41Monza cannot be used for the comparison as cars tend to run close there for the entire race.AR3-GP wrote: ↑21 Sep 2023, 19:59and they only won by 11 seconds in Monza. We are fortunate to have had Monza before the TD where they already didn't take pole because otherwise people would use Monza as evidence that they are no longer winning by 30 seconds after the TD.
The truth is disappointing. When Mercedes was 1.5 seconds off pole in 2015 without any regulations changes, no one bats and eye.
Last year (in the wet) Max won by ~30s in ~30 lapsAR3-GP wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 04:15Japan historically has not trended towards massive gaps either. You won't find anyone winning from another team by 30 seconds in the last decade, even amongst the dominant Mercs and RBs that we came to know.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 03:41Monza cannot be used for the comparison as cars tend to run close there for the entire race.AR3-GP wrote: ↑21 Sep 2023, 19:59
and they only won by 11 seconds in Monza. We are fortunate to have had Monza before the TD where they already didn't take pole because otherwise people would use Monza as evidence that they are no longer winning by 30 seconds after the TD.
The truth is disappointing. When Mercedes was 1.5 seconds off pole in 2015 without any regulations changes, no one bats and eye.
That was a wet race to be fair.organic wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 04:46Last year (in the wet) Max won by ~30s in ~30 lapsAR3-GP wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 04:15Japan historically has not trended towards massive gaps either. You won't find anyone winning from another team by 30 seconds in the last decade, even amongst the dominant Mercs and RBs that we came to know.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 03:41
Monza cannot be used for the comparison as cars tend to run close there for the entire race.
No, clearly Red Bull cheated somehow.
.
I think he's being ironic.Wouter wrote:.
Why do you think RBR cheated? Could you explane please?
It's in the future, I'm being dry regarding the inevitable response of some fans and the predetermined nature of their responses whilst kind of giving the flippant question the flippant response it deserved
It was a serious question. There are teams who have been impacted by the TD but much of the legitimate discussion has been obfuscated by Singapore unfortunately. It's no surprise that most teams took advantage of Singapore to deflect attention towards RB but as we move back to a more traditional circuit, the teams who were affected will have to face reality.
KimiRai wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 10:31https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-as ... /10523015/F1 | Aston Martin fears the TD018 and measures wing deflection
A sensor has appeared in the rear end of the AMR23 at Suzuka, pointing at two coloured sights located inside the side bulkhead of the rear wing. The Silverstone engineers monitor the flexing after the FIA's technical directive limiting movement. A metal reinforcement between the crash structure and the lower beam wing can also be seen on the 'green'. The diffuser wing that debuted at Zandvoort was also due to return to the scene: but the profile still affects the lifter and so it goes back into the... drawer.
Aston Martin wants to control wing deflection after the FIA tightened up its controls by introducing the TD018 technical directive in Singapore. At Suzuka, a curious aerodynamic shape appeared on the mono-pylon holding the rear wing of the AMR23: nothing strange because they are simply sensors able to measure the deflections of the side bulkheads.
In the picture taken from behind by our own Giorgio Piola, you can see the two purple and green coloured adhesive crosshairs positioned inside the side bulkhead which, when appropriately framed, can visualise what the movements are as aerodynamic load and speed increase.
On the subject of deflections of the aerodynamic elements, the metal reinforcements that have been fitted between the rear crash structure and the lower beam wing also do not escape notice, a sign that certain play between the parts is no longer permitted.
In the pits, the mechanics have already completed the rebuilding of Lance Stroll's car, who will be in his seat regularly in the Japanese GP after missing the Marina Bay race following the frightening accident in Q1 from which he had emerged. On one of the two AMR23s the small diffuser wing that had made a fleeting appearance at Zandvoort will also be seen again.
The wing, in fact, had seemed not very resistant to the loads and to the attachment of the car's lift, which had been specifically modified in Holland. The rear jack was further revised, but the problems seen in pit stop practice would have advised "parking" this micro-wing, so it should not even be seen in action at Suzuka.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6i9S2zWUAE ... ame=medium
Well, it will take a few races to understand if we can see an impact as the data overcomes the ebb and flow of teams strengths and weaknesses at different tracksAR3-GP wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 18:38It was a serious question. There are teams who have been impacted by the TD but much of the legitimate discussion has been obfuscated by Singapore unfortunately. It's no surprise that most teams took advantage of Singapore to deflect attention towards RB but as we move back to a more traditional circuit, the teams who were affected will have to face reality.
See this report:
KimiRai wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 10:31https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-as ... /10523015/F1 | Aston Martin fears the TD018 and measures wing deflection
A sensor has appeared in the rear end of the AMR23 at Suzuka, pointing at two coloured sights located inside the side bulkhead of the rear wing. The Silverstone engineers monitor the flexing after the FIA's technical directive limiting movement. A metal reinforcement between the crash structure and the lower beam wing can also be seen on the 'green'. The diffuser wing that debuted at Zandvoort was also due to return to the scene: but the profile still affects the lifter and so it goes back into the... drawer.
Aston Martin wants to control wing deflection after the FIA tightened up its controls by introducing the TD018 technical directive in Singapore. At Suzuka, a curious aerodynamic shape appeared on the mono-pylon holding the rear wing of the AMR23: nothing strange because they are simply sensors able to measure the deflections of the side bulkheads.
In the picture taken from behind by our own Giorgio Piola, you can see the two purple and green coloured adhesive crosshairs positioned inside the side bulkhead which, when appropriately framed, can visualise what the movements are as aerodynamic load and speed increase.
On the subject of deflections of the aerodynamic elements, the metal reinforcements that have been fitted between the rear crash structure and the lower beam wing also do not escape notice, a sign that certain play between the parts is no longer permitted.
In the pits, the mechanics have already completed the rebuilding of Lance Stroll's car, who will be in his seat regularly in the Japanese GP after missing the Marina Bay race following the frightening accident in Q1 from which he had emerged. On one of the two AMR23s the small diffuser wing that had made a fleeting appearance at Zandvoort will also be seen again.
The wing, in fact, had seemed not very resistant to the loads and to the attachment of the car's lift, which had been specifically modified in Holland. The rear jack was further revised, but the problems seen in pit stop practice would have advised "parking" this micro-wing, so it should not even be seen in action at Suzuka.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6i9S2zWUAE ... ame=medium