Jesus christ. The difference in terms of downforce between RB and Ferrari is immense.Juzh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 14:49verstappen q3 lap
https://streamable.com/3qbcqu
piastri q3 lap
https://streamable.com/1gcxbq
leclerc q3 lap
https://streamable.com/oxjydm
Without knowing the times and how it unfolded piastri looks quickest in s1 to me. He barely has to brake in the Esses and is still making good apexes. Only braked once that I can notice. Max has the highest top speed into turn one but he brakes more than Pia. The Ferrari has to do the most braking and definitely looks slower overall.Farnborough wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 15:07They have to be up to the task of holding onto getting toward 1000kg chucked into corner #1 at absolutely flat, along with very high lateral loading on all the high speed corners and particularly 130R....?..no surprise really that the structural resistance (tyre carcass) is not amenable to "slow" speed corner characteristicJuzh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 14:41I think pirellis have to be super hard to cope with downforce levels, which in turn is very detrimental to low speed performance. As there's no tyre war there's no incentive to invest massive sums in order to improve overall performance.Artur Craft wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 12:58
One can see how terrible Pirelli is by looking at the cornering speeds, at the hairpin, of these cars, which are the same of the Super GT one, ~72 km/h Those much heavier GT cars, with narrower tyres, should not be cornering at F1 speeds even on the corners in which downforce is far less relevant
Nothing really unusual in that.
Sometimes, you really can't have everything.
You’d be wrong. Max pulls out most of the advantage in S1.Hammerfist wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:19Without knowing the times and how it unfolded piastri looks quickest in s1 to me. He barely has to brake in the Esses and is still making good apexes. Only braked once that I can notice. Max has the highest top speed into turn one but he brakes more than Pia. The Ferrari has to do the most braking and definitely looks slower overall.Farnborough wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 15:07They have to be up to the task of holding onto getting toward 1000kg chucked into corner #1 at absolutely flat, along with very high lateral loading on all the high speed corners and particularly 130R....?..no surprise really that the structural resistance (tyre carcass) is not amenable to "slow" speed corner characteristic
Nothing really unusual in that.
Sometimes, you really can't have everything.
Not sure were the Piastri was better in S1 comes from. Read it a few times here. Looking at min/apex speeds101FlyingDutchman wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:20You’d be wrong. Max pulls out most of the advantage in S1.Hammerfist wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:19Without knowing the times and how it unfolded piastri looks quickest in s1 to me. He barely has to brake in the Esses and is still making good apexes. Only braked once that I can notice. Max has the highest top speed into turn one but he brakes more than Pia. The Ferrari has to do the most braking and definitely looks slower overall.Farnborough wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 15:07
They have to be up to the task of holding onto getting toward 1000kg chucked into corner #1 at absolutely flat, along with very high lateral loading on all the high speed corners and particularly 130R....?..no surprise really that the structural resistance (tyre carcass) is not amenable to "slow" speed corner characteristic
Nothing really unusual in that.
Sometimes, you really can't have everything.
Actually most of his advantage is in sector 2. The difference in s1 is 2 tenths. And I said it looked to me, which means it’s not necessarily factual, just my opinion.101FlyingDutchman wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:20You’d be wrong. Max pulls out most of the advantage in S1.Hammerfist wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:19Without knowing the times and how it unfolded piastri looks quickest in s1 to me. He barely has to brake in the Esses and is still making good apexes. Only braked once that I can notice. Max has the highest top speed into turn one but he brakes more than Pia. The Ferrari has to do the most braking and definitely looks slower overall.Farnborough wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 15:07
They have to be up to the task of holding onto getting toward 1000kg chucked into corner #1 at absolutely flat, along with very high lateral loading on all the high speed corners and particularly 130R....?..no surprise really that the structural resistance (tyre carcass) is not amenable to "slow" speed corner characteristic
Nothing really unusual in that.
Sometimes, you really can't have everything.
I was wrong indeed. It’s just different approaches. Max doesn’t brake for t4 while piastri does but max brakes for t6 while piastri doesn’t.Puffpirat wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:40Not sure were the Piastri was better in S1 comes from. Read it a few times here. Looking at min/apex speeds101FlyingDutchman wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:20You’d be wrong. Max pulls out most of the advantage in S1.Hammerfist wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:19
Without knowing the times and how it unfolded piastri looks quickest in s1 to me. He barely has to brake in the Esses and is still making good apexes. Only braked once that I can notice. Max has the highest top speed into turn one but he brakes more than Pia. The Ferrari has to do the most braking and definitely looks slower overall.
VER-PIA
T2 173 165
T3 250 247
T4 237 226
T5 231 214
T6 190 197
Piastri was only faster in T6 but that compromised the entry to T7. Max didn’t brake at all after T2 until T6.
Verstappen is deliberately not upsetting the aero platform, slowly rolling on the throttle, keeping the life in the tire. Piastri is stomping on it like a rookie would. Looks fast, but not the best way to drive the car. I think there is a good chance verstappen would have put that mclaren on pole too.ringo wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 17:06If you know the car has the grip and you are confident you will get drive i do not think it is bad.napoleon1981 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 16:24I think verstappen was keeping the tires alive, saving it there yields 2 tenths out of the triangle. Sharp on the pedals is a bad thing.
on these laps,Hammerfist wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:53Actually most of his advantage is in sector 2. The difference in s1 is 2 tenths. And I said it looked to me, which means it’s not necessarily factual, just my opinion.
This...MV so "polite" with the car, easing it through changes with "soft" hands and feet, letting it take a natural line....watch 130R.....with exquisite economy of distance and chassis calmness.napoleon1981 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 20:31Verstappen is deliberately not upsetting the aero platform, slowly rolling on the throttle, keeping the life in the tire. Piastri is stomping on it like a rookie would. Looks fast, but not the best way to drive the car. I think there is a good chance verstappen would have put that mclaren on pole too.ringo wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 17:06If you know the car has the grip and you are confident you will get drive i do not think it is bad.napoleon1981 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 16:24I think verstappen was keeping the tires alive, saving it there yields 2 tenths out of the triangle. Sharp on the pedals is a bad thing.
Mate, remember what you wrote and tell me from your math where is that lot more pace that you think Mclaren had other then the difference in the S1 which was ~4 hundreds according to you: 30.952 - 30.916. Both drivers were slower on the 2nd run, who knows why, but there wasn't more pace in that car, as the results say. I think they (Mclaren) know better than an armchair expert, even on a technical forum, and they are happy with it. Just because you believe something doesn't make it real, sorry to say. The could've, would've, should've aren't arguments. Just move on and enjoy the sport.avantman wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 20:39on these laps,Hammerfist wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:53Actually most of his advantage is in sector 2. The difference in s1 is 2 tenths. And I said it looked to me, which means it’s not necessarily factual, just my opinion.
VER S1 30.725
PIA S1 31.173
0.448s delta
Very poor S1 from Piastri. Even in T7, where he had higher minimal speed than Max, he lost a lot on the exit and all the way through the following straight due to tighter compromised line, causing hesitation on the throttle. Max dropped more speed on purpose to take a wider straighter line through Dunlop. That all is very visible on the onboards.
Oscar S1 was a lot slower than Lando and his own S1 on the 2nd run, which was 30.952, Lando was still faster with 30.916, and in general faster than Oscar on S1 all weekend. There was a lot more pace in Mclaren.