2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[djos]

Mclaren are to trial using recycled Carbon Fibre parts at the US GP. Nice way to help the environment and to save some cash.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/67087399

That is pretty cool.

[mclaren111]

Mclaren are to trial using recycled Carbon Fibre parts at the US GP. Nice way to help the environment and to save some cash.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/67087399

Winning Races & Championships are far more important...

[mwillems]

Does the Honda engine still have a deficit at high altitude (Mexico)?

Was this ever the case?

I think the Renault engine struggled at some point, don't ever recall an issue with Honda, but might be wrong.

[mwillems]

Mclaren are to trial using recycled Carbon Fibre parts at the US GP. Nice way to help the environment and to save some cash.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/67087399

Winning Races & Championships are far more important...

If you want to win championships you need to make the most of your budget. You recall from the budget cap fiasco that even £300k is worth a decent upgrade in development costs. it's a good move.

[djos]

Mclaren are to trial using recycled Carbon Fibre parts at the US GP. Nice way to help the environment and to save some cash.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/67087399

Winning Races & Championships are far more important...

If it saves money, there’s more money for other things.

[Farnborough]

Mclaren are to trial using recycled Carbon Fibre parts at the US GP. Nice way to help the environment and to save some cash.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/67087399

Winning Races & Championships are far more important...

If it saves money, there’s more money for other things.

Did they attach a cost to it for comparison ?

Offers 85% of the strength of "prime" materials! Meaning they'll have to make structural component heavier to compensate, surely opposite to using CF and composite in the first place

[djos]

Winning Races & Championships are far more important...

If it saves money, there’s more money for other things.

Did they attach a cost to it for comparison ?

Offers 85% of the strength of "prime" materials! Meaning they'll have to make structural component heavier to compensate, surely opposite to using CF and composite in the first place

If it is used on non-structural parts, like engine covers, the strength loss is not important.

[Farnborough]

If it saves money, there’s more money for other things.

Did they attach a cost to it for comparison ?

Offers 85% of the strength of "prime" materials! Meaning they'll have to make structural component heavier to compensate, surely opposite to using CF and composite in the first place

If it is used on non-structural parts, like engine covers, the strength loss is not important.

It's certainly one of the uncomfortable considerations (from an ecological point of view) the use of fibres enclosed in a resin matrix. F1 may offer informed approach, but small beer in total usage I'd guess. Wind turbine blades and ski structures likely to have greater impact in reality at a guess, with no current competent route to disposal or recycling. The marine industry another vast user of this type material.

[mwillems]

Did they attach a cost to it for comparison ?

Offers 85% of the strength of "prime" materials! Meaning they'll have to make structural component heavier to compensate, surely opposite to using CF and composite in the first place

If it is used on non-structural parts, like engine covers, the strength loss is not important.

It's certainly one of the uncomfortable considerations (from an ecological point of view) the use of fibres enclosed in a resin matrix. F1 may offer informed approach, but small beer in total usage I'd guess. Wind turbine blades and ski structures likely to have greater impact in reality at a guess, with no current competent route to disposal or recycling. The marine industry another vast user of this type material.

I think that is what they are testing, where can this be used without any performance or reliability impact, we will see how much of a cost saving it is, but to consider that an upgrade costing a couple of a hundred thousand can bring a tenth or so, anything that saves the cash to get that extra tenth is worth it, especially in a title fight, the RB budget Cap overspend highlighted that, although probably in an exaggerated fashion.

And whilst not benefiting only Mclaren, if they can do a PoC that demonstrates to the FIA that this product is usable, then an additional reg could be implemented to state that certain parts or certain percentage of parts need to be recycled carbon, to keep it on an even but green playing field.

So whilst there is a budget cap saving, there is also a nice brand boost for Mclaren by leading the way.

I wouldn't worry about performance,they will only use it where they can.

[CjC]

Did they attach a cost to it for comparison ?

Offers 85% of the strength of "prime" materials! Meaning they'll have to make structural component heavier to compensate, surely opposite to using CF and composite in the first place

If it is used on non-structural parts, like engine covers, the strength loss is not important.

It's certainly one of the uncomfortable considerations (from an ecological point of view) the use of fibres enclosed in a resin matrix. F1 may offer informed approach, but small beer in total usage I'd guess. Wind turbine blades and ski structures likely to have greater impact in reality at a guess, with no current competent route to disposal or recycling. The marine industry another vast user of this type material.

I believe wind turbine blades are hard to dispose of. Last I knew they were chucking them into a massive pit in America

[Farnborough]

I just think it's very tenuous ground for a race team to be standing on.......nobody in more serious "green" direction will look at this without severe criticism.

There's too much promoting a push in self congratulatory "achievement" while carrying out, arguably, something that doesn't need to happen. I'm always of a racing interest disposition, it feels uncomfortable and hypocritical to fanfare this sort of, let's face it minor shift, that doesn't achieve much but publicity.

They need to concentrate on their core activities and be proud of that.

[daren_p]

Does the Honda engine still have a deficit at high altitude (Mexico)?

Was this ever the case?

From what I recall, it was actually the opposite. Honda didn't have a deficit at altitude, they actually performed better vs Merc. Not sure where they stand currently.

[mclaren111]

If it is used on non-structural parts, like engine covers, the strength loss is not important.

It's certainly one of the uncomfortable considerations (from an ecological point of view) the use of fibres enclosed in a resin matrix. F1 may offer informed approach, but small beer in total usage I'd guess. Wind turbine blades and ski structures likely to have greater impact in reality at a guess, with no current competent route to disposal or recycling. The marine industry another vast user of this type material.

I believe wind turbine blades are hard to dispose of. Last I knew they were chucking them into a massive pit in America

Spot on...

Wind Turbine Blades Can’t Be Recycled, So They’re Piling Up in Landfills

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... #xj4y7vzkg

<Mod edit: pure politics removed>

[taperoo2k]

I think they've done good work on the Aero side of dealing with the tyre behaviour, but that there is some work to do in a new chassis on the mechanical side. I'm guessing this will help the platform stay stay in the optimum windows for Aero during cornering, braking, accelerating away etc as well as help improve the way the tyre makes contact with the ground to improve grip and the cars thermal input into the tyre.

Rob Marshall might be able to help a bit with some of the suspension work but I wouldn't think much else for the 24 car, apart from bits of information he brings with him from Red Bull that might help us refine our concept. The chassis will be tied down by that point, largely so not much doing there.

I wonder if they will start conceptual work on the 25 car pretty early next year with Marshall and Sanchez getting up to speed with our concepts and planned future developments before they start to generate their own idea of how to improve the car in 25.

I expect Marshall and Sanchez will have an impact on the in season development of the 2024 car, as a lot of the parts will likely carry over into the 2025 car. The focus will be on the 2026 cars given the budget cap.

Possibly, I'm just not sure how much. As for what will carry over into the 25 car, I'm not sure how much we know will be carried over. it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that given the reg change that the 25 car may not develop as much so we can focus on '26... but since we have targeted '25 as the title challenge year, I don't think the team will be thinking like that.

Sanchez and Marshall are going to need to integrate, learn the car etc so they may have some input, particularly as Sanchez works out what is the right direction and concept of the 25 car, this might affect the direction of the 24 car. But to do that they need to run the 24 car in anger and learn from the winter so again... this brings them neatly up to the point that the 25 car would start development so I expect Sanchez focus would be here.

Marshall, if the chassis and development budget allows, might be able to help with some of the integrations in the chassis and the suspension I guess but how tied down this is by the team he can have meaningful input, I don't know.

It's about resource management, they still have to work within the cost cap including designing the 2026 cars once the FIA have finalised the aerodynamic rules (active aero etc). As for Marshall and Sanchez? They won't be able to change the core design of the '24 car, but they will have an effect on the in season development. It's how they'll integrate with the team. I think Marshall will probably help McLaren get the best out of the suspension on the '24 car and how they can improve it for '25.

The other thing with teams carrying over parts from '24 over into '25 is that it saves money. Money that can be spent on the 2026 car. I see no point in McLaren chucking the kitchen sink at '25 possibly winning a title, only to find themselves on the back foot in '26.

[taperoo2k]

It's certainly one of the uncomfortable considerations (from an ecological point of view) the use of fibres enclosed in a resin matrix. F1 may offer informed approach, but small beer in total usage I'd guess. Wind turbine blades and ski structures likely to have greater impact in reality at a guess, with no current competent route to disposal or recycling. The marine industry another vast user of this type material.

I believe wind turbine blades are hard to dispose of. Last I knew they were chucking them into a massive pit in America

Spot on...

Wind Turbine Blades Can’t Be Recycled, So They’re Piling Up in Landfills

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... #xj4y7vzkg

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqj ... 0x1499.jpg


Tax Payer Money...

They've been looking into recycling the blades for a while now. One approach is to shred the blades into smaller pieces and then use the materials in concrete, whilst recycling the metals etc. https://cen.acs.org/environment/recycli ... es/100/i27