2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[djos]

so its true they are power struggles.daniel has his chance Horner is leaving in the past,people say Ric is good at marketing maybe they should elaborate what they really mean

Ric is popular on social media. Horner might be living the past, but the present (Perez) is not sustainable.

Daniel might be the past, but he has already demonstrated that he can drive the RB19 at a competitive level. Perez OTOH has been a disaster for most of the season. Daniel was let go from McLaren for less.

[Juzh]

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Marko is now the link between Mintzlaff and Horner btw.

What do you think about Horners behaviour?
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If the rumours are true then it shows that redbull are heading in the wrong direction .the porsche deal failed because of power struggles may horner and some show the writing on the wall that they will small fish in a pond populated by big sharks.what may be good for an individual may not be best for the whole redbull entity.

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Dietrich Mateschitz (49% shares) and Helmut Marko wanted to continue with Porsche. The Thai branch of Red Bull GmbH (51%) and Horner wanted to continue with Ford. So it became Ford.
Horner and the Thai people wanted Peter Bayer as CEO at AlphaTauri and he got the job.
Now Horner wants to bring Ricciardo back to RBR, he has always been his favorite. Here again the Thai people were decisive
and not Helmut Marko with the Austrian branch (only 49%) of Red Bull GmbH.

Seriously though, do you have any concrete sources for all of this?

[TFSA]

the world is not europe ,from where i come from people most drink canned beer .redbull is mostly drank by university students ,those pretending to be athlete and other group i mentioned,they are other cheap alternative that people buy so not popular choice

First: Isn't university students pretty much the opposite of truckers? Or is trucker a university degree wherever you're from?

Second: I don't have a clue where you come from. But since you went out of your way to say that the world is not Europe: Beyond the fact that the statistics i mentioned in my last post was pulled from the US, according to Statistica, in 2022 "the leading energy drink brand in the United States was Red Bull, based on generated sales of about 6.85 billion U.S. dollars." So much for the cheap alternatives.

Finally, Red Bull is a brand on the rise. In 2011, they sold 4.1 billion cans worldwide. In 2016, that number was almost 6 billion. In 2021, that was 9.8 billion.

Maybe things are different whereever you're from (unlikely, but maybe), but given that statistics contradict everything you've written so far, I'll stand by my earlier statement that what you're presenting here is pure nonsense.

[Stu]

Just a gentle reminder that this is the race team thread.


A great deal of the above has little/nothing to do with the race team.

[Wouter]

Dietrich Mateschitz (49% shares) and Helmut Marko wanted to continue with Porsche. The Thai branch of Red Bull GmbH (51%) and Horner wanted to continue with Ford. So it became Ford.
Horner and the Thai people wanted Peter Bayer as CEO at AlphaTauri and he got the job.
Now Horner wants to bring Ricciardo back to RBR, he has always been his favorite. Here again the Thai people were decisive
and not Helmut Marko with the Austrian branch (only 49%) of Red Bull GmbH.

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Seriously though, do you have any concrete sources for all of this?

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Sure, several German interviews last months on TV and in newspapers. Why are you asking? This is new to you?

[ME4ME]

Dietrich Mateschitz (49% shares) and Helmut Marko wanted to continue with Porsche. The Thai branch of Red Bull GmbH (51%) and Horner wanted to continue with Ford. So it became Ford.
Horner and the Thai people wanted Peter Bayer as CEO at AlphaTauri and he got the job.
Now Horner wants to bring Ricciardo back to RBR, he has always been his favorite. Here again the Thai people were decisive
and not Helmut Marko with the Austrian branch (only 49%) of Red Bull GmbH.

.
Seriously though, do you have any concrete sources for all of this?

.
Sure, several German interviews last months on TV and in newspapers. Why are you asking? This is new to you?

For me unless some real quotes are revealed this isn't common knowledge its German speculation.

We seldom hear anything publicly from the Thai side of Red Bull, nor do we hear about differences in opinion between Marko and Horner. Thats mostly kept fairly well internal. Only thing we truely know was their difference in opinion about hiring De Vries at Alpha Tauri for 2023.

[Sieper]

If it all is true, Marko and Max are very close, Max wanted to give Nyck a chance so Marko went for it while Horner always wanted Ricciardo. Hence the relative quick letting go, Horner stressed the point, Marko gave in when Nyck didn’t (seem to) perform as hoped. Just me thinking, not actual truth with sources.

[DDopey]

I think it is all a lot of hearsay, rumours, and hearing things that are not there. Gossip at the level of the Daily news or the Sun.

[AR3-GP]

If we are to see a significant evolution of the RB design philosophy, 2024 will be the last opportunity based on what teams are saying about '24 car setting the tone for '25 due to '26 regs. Therefore, I do not believe we will see major changes to the RB car again. RB20 will likely just be a subtle refinement of the RB19.

[Wouter]

Here the German article about about the conflict between Horner and Marko and more.
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Red Bull dominates Formula 1 with Max Verstappen, but the current industry leader is anything but harmony. An explosive power struggle has broken out behind the scenes.

The Brazilian broadcaster Globo first reported that Dr. Helmut Marko is to be forced out of his position as head of motorsport at Red Bull - of all people by long-time team boss and companion Christian Horner. However, the conflict has a history.

"In the past there was a rumor that AlphaTauri was to be sold. But the sale was then prevented from Salzburg because it was another wish of the late Didi Mateschitz. Then it was decided that more support was needed. Christian Horner, in turn, took this as an opportunity to say: “If I am to support more, I also have to have more influence,” explains Sky expert Ralf Schumacher.
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The explosive power struggle within the world champion team is being watched like a hawk in Formula 1. But who will decide this for themselves? "Dr. Marko was always the link between Salzburg, the interests of the team, but also the interests of Didi Mateschitz and was the advisor," said Schumacher and continued: "Horner was hired by Dr. Marko at the time, but he was and is "It's not without controversy in Salzburg. You shouldn't forget that the Thai shareholder has slightly different interests. Apparently Horner is more oriented towards Thailand at the moment because he had a difficult life in Salzburg."
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Schumacher advises respectful interaction and a prudent approach. "Unrest causes performance to suffer. That's why you should be very careful and think about what you have achieved together."

[DDopey]

I can see Marko go but for other reasons. I think there is a lot of nonsense around it (what does Globo know, or Schumacher). Also it's a pretty standard request from Horner “If I am to support more, I also have to have more influence,” . This is not a power struggle.

[AR3-GP]

Marko is 80.

[Paa]

If we are to see a significant evolution of the RB design philosophy, 2024 will be the last opportunity based on what teams are saying about '24 car setting the tone for '25 due to '26 regs. Therefore, I do not believe we will see major changes to the RB car again. RB20 will likely just be a subtle refinement of the RB19.

Wasn't RB18 --> RB19 a big change btw?
I'm no expert, and I realize that the surface was almost literally identical, but RB18 riding high vs RB19 riding low, seems like a big change in floor philosophy, isn't it?

edit: also RB18 was maybe more about topspeed, while RB19 was tuned to more cornering, to simplify it massively.

[TFSA]

If we are to see a significant evolution of the RB design philosophy, 2024 will be the last opportunity based on what teams are saying about '24 car setting the tone for '25 due to '26 regs. Therefore, I do not believe we will see major changes to the RB car again. RB20 will likely just be a subtle refinement of the RB19.

Wasn't RB18 --> RB19 a big change btw?
I'm no expert, and I realize that the surface was almost literally identical, but RB18 riding high vs RB19 riding low, seems like a big change in floor philosophy, isn't it?

edit: also RB18 was maybe more about topspeed, while RB19 was tuned to more cornering, to simplify it massively.

I believe the most significant change was that the RB19 was much lighter. Beyond that, the initial version of the RB19 wasn't that different from the late RB18. Both of them never really had porpoising problems, so they've both always had really stable aero characteristics. Both are also really efficient.

[organic]

If we are to see a significant evolution of the RB design philosophy, 2024 will be the last opportunity based on what teams are saying about '24 car setting the tone for '25 due to '26 regs. Therefore, I do not believe we will see major changes to the RB car again. RB20 will likely just be a subtle refinement of the RB19.

Wasn't RB18 --> RB19 a big change btw?
I'm no expert, and I realize that the surface was almost literally identical, but RB18 riding high vs RB19 riding low, seems like a big change in floor philosophy, isn't it?

edit: also RB18 was maybe more about topspeed, while RB19 was tuned to more cornering, to simplify it massively.

I don't think the floor philosophy changed that much. The location of the throat and the tunnel, keel, diffuser shape seemed to be roughly similar to the RB18.

The ride height change was probably in response to the diffuser throat height and floor edge changes.

But fundamentally the rb19 was very similar to the 2022 car I think