2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[LionsHeart]

Monaco spec rear wing and beam wing or Singapore spec?

Who has any guesses? What will the team choose for Saturday and Sunday?

[the EDGE]

I'm not surprised... Lando bleeds Papaya

[mwillems]

Following on about the bump stuff. Duchessa who is essentially getting his info from Ferrari I expect has reported that McLaren gave up over a tenth per lap on the setup to ensure legality. Give that laptime back and things would be close again between McLaren and Merc in race trim

You'd have to also take away from Merc again too, as they clearly need to lose a bit of time on their setup, it's just a question of how much. But much of that conversation going on elsewhere seems unsubstantiated.

[mwillems]

I'm not surprised... Lando bleeds Papaya

And next to Verstappen, there's a reasonable chance he'll haemorrhage his career.

[the EDGE]

I'm not surprised... Lando bleeds Papaya

And next to Verstappen, there's a reasonable chance he'll haemorrhage his career.

I don’t know, Lando has proved he can be just as quick over a single lap, both coming close to, and beating Max, whilst driving an inferior car, and that he can look after his tyres throughout a race

When the McLaren was a midfield car, he won the midfield battle time & time again, now it’s showing like a front runner, he’s only getting beaten by Max’s RB, which is still a class ahead of the rest. Lando has always achieved the maximum the car can, so I see no reason to doubt he could take on Max.

[mwillems]

I'm not surprised... Lando bleeds Papaya

And next to Verstappen, there's a reasonable chance he'll haemorrhage his career.

I don’t know, Lando has proved he can be just as quick over a single lap, both coming close to, and beating Max, whilst driving an inferior car, and that he can look after his tyres throughout a race

When the McLaren was a midfield car, he won the midfield battle time & time again, now it’s showing like a front runner, he’s only getting beaten by Max’s RB, which is still a class ahead of the rest. Lando has always achieved the maximum the car can, so I see no reason to doubt he could take on Max.

Obviously it is just a subjective opinion, hence I say reasonable. I say that because if he gets squashed by Max or simply struggles with the car then it will set him back. And because of the Team dynamics and the fact it is not a foregone conclusion he will get on with the car, there is a reasonable chance it could set him back somewhat and it not be in his control totally. I also think there is a gap in skills and mental strength between the two of them, but that is my personal opinion. Max is relentless and one of the best of all time, I'm not sure that is Lando yet.

[organic]

[organic]

[LionsHeart]

So interesting

I still tend to think the Monaco spec will be optimal, but maybe the team wants to test the Singapore spec in thin air and if it performs well, they'll keep it. In that case I would consider the Singapore spec to be high downforce, not medium-high as I believe at the moment.

[the EDGE]

Obviously it is just a subjective opinion, hence I say reasonable. I say that because if he gets squashed by Max or simply struggles with the car then it will set him back. And because of the Team dynamics and the fact it is not a foregone conclusion he will get on with the car, there is a reasonable chance it could set him back somewhat and it not be in his control totally. I also think there is a gap in skills and mental strength between the two of them, but that is my personal opinion. Max is relentless and one of the best of all time, I'm not sure that is Lando yet.

I agree failing would be a set back, and the it’s definitely team Max over there, in fact that’s probably the best reason for them to turn them down, and yes it’s subjective, but I honestly don’t think Lando would fail

He’s proven he can the best out of a difficult car, he can adapt his driving style as needed

Lando & Max are very different people, polar opposites (yet also good friends), max has had it very easy for the past 2 years, he has faced zero pressure, so he certainly looks a complete driver, albeit with a few mistakes still, but Lando has made very few mistakes also, those he has are because how hard he’s had to push to get results in a the difficult, inferior car.

Take away those cars that McLaren clearly couldn’t compete with, I.e look at what the best finishing place Lando could realistically achieve, and he’s been there so many times. That’s why RB are so desperate to get their hands on him

He might not have Max’s persona/attitued, he might not not go about things the same way, but he gets the same results, they just don’t look as good as RB can finish p1 (p1-2 pre 2022) and Lando could only be at best, best of the rest

As you say, it’s subjective, just my opinion, and I Know your not putting Lando down and I’m not putting you down, but I think you underestimate his ability, maybe because Lando is such a nice guy & just doesn’t seem capable of taking the fight to Max

I think we both agree Lando is better off where he is right now, RB politics is not good for anyone’s career TBH, Lando needs McLaren as much as they need him, let’s hope one day they can fight for championships together

[mwillems]

Obviously it is just a subjective opinion, hence I say reasonable. I say that because if he gets squashed by Max or simply struggles with the car then it will set him back. And because of the Team dynamics and the fact it is not a foregone conclusion he will get on with the car, there is a reasonable chance it could set him back somewhat and it not be in his control totally. I also think there is a gap in skills and mental strength between the two of them, but that is my personal opinion. Max is relentless and one of the best of all time, I'm not sure that is Lando yet.

I agree failing would be a set back, and the it’s definitely team Max over there, in fact that’s probably the best reason for them to turn them down, and yes it’s subjective, but I honestly don’t think Lando would fail

He’s proven he can the best out of a difficult car, he can adapt his driving style as needed

Lando & Max are very different people, polar opposites (yet also good friends), max has had it very easy for the past 2 years, he has faced zero pressure, so he certainly looks a complete driver, albeit with a few mistakes still, but Lando has made very few mistakes also, those he has are because how hard he’s had to push to get results in a the difficult, inferior car.

Take away those cars that McLaren clearly couldn’t compete with, I.e look at what the best finishing place Lando could realistically achieve, and he’s been there so many times. That’s why RB are so desperate to get their hands on him

He might not have Max’s persona/attitued, he might not not go about things the same way, but he gets the same results, they just don’t look as good as RB can finish p1 (p1-2 pre 2022) and Lando could only be at best, best of the rest

As you say, it’s subjective, just my opinion, and I Know your not putting Lando down and I’m not putting you down, but I think you underestimate his ability, maybe because Lando is such a nice guy & just doesn’t seem capable of taking the fight to Max

I think we both agree Lando is better off where he is right now, RB politics is not good for anyone’s career TBH, Lando needs McLaren as much as they need him, let’s hope one day they can fight for championships together

His driving is not necessarily what could fail him, we've seen many a strong driver get undone by a car they don't get on with, and look how Ricciardo is having to rebuild his career.

He can certainly put a lap in, I'm just not sure he can bang it in almost every time it is demanded. But he will do, I don't doubt he will get there. And mentally, it is more to do with the machine that Max is, he's just Brutal and takes no prisoners, part of that brutal RB culture where there is nowhere to hide and any weakness will be exposed. I think a lot of Lando, I just don't think he is elite yet, but when going to the very elite from one of the best, the differences are fine margins, but I think those fine margins are what give you a consistent advantage over the others around you. And I think that is why Max is one of the greatest drivers to grace F1, I'm not a fan of his, but he is relentless brilliance and ability to reach that level almost every time, and it has taken me a long while to be able to admit that

[FittingMechanics]

About Lando and Max, you have to take into account that they do simracing (same cars), few years ago it looked like Max is faster in sim racing.

Maybe it is amount of preparation or just suits him better but I wouldn't be surprised for Lando to be wary of joining Red Bull and getting beaten.

Obviously things would be very different if McLaren did not turn things around. If that was the case then it would be very likely to see Lando leave to some other team.

[mwillems]

About Lando and Max, you have to take into account that they do simracing (same cars), few years ago it looked like Max is faster in sim racing.

Maybe it is amount of preparation or just suits him better but I wouldn't be surprised for Lando to be wary of joining Red Bull and getting beaten.

Obviously things would be very different if McLaren did not turn things around. If that was the case then it would be very likely to see Lando leave to some other team.

I think Max is in the argument to be one of the best F1 drivers of all time, I don't think Lando is in that argument and I don't think it is just titles and that is probably just the easiest way to describe without going into detail that there is a gap between them. I think anyone in their right mind would be wary of going up against Max in "his" team, under the pressure that RB recieves, and the pressure that RB gives from within also.

But anyway, I'm super glad he's staying, he's the right fit for this team, let's get his contract extended before the new season, just in case it doesn't start well

[SmallSoldier]

It’s always hard to judge drivers that aren’t in the same car, sometimes even when they are in the same car (given car’s characteristics and strengths / weaknesses of the drivers)… I still remember when Vettel was also in the discussion as on the best drivers in history during his stint in Red Bull, until he went to Ferrari and I’m afraid he is no longer in that conversation…

[mwillems]

So interesting

I still tend to think the Monaco spec will be optimal, but maybe the team wants to test the Singapore spec in thin air and if it performs well, they'll keep it. In that case I would consider the Singapore spec to be high downforce, not medium-high as I believe at the moment.

They have brought the Monaco spec? Interesting. Obviously this is a tricky track to set up for, but whilst the Monaco spec will obviously produce a lot more DF, they don't have a version that has the efficient winglets like Mercedes have. So the concept of the wing is a little "outdated" (I use that term loosely) as it won't be as efficient for the downforce produced, but maybe that is what is required here.

From what I can see, teams are largely using the same wings they used at Austin, not sure if this implies anything for our final choice.