Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

[i70q7m7ghw]

Lets look at the facts.

Massa's helmet succesfully protected his head from the impact of the spring, he took some injury but he's alive.

Massa's car protected his legs and body from the impact with the tyre barrier.

Massa's HANS device seems to have helped reduce the force through his neck and the base of the skull suffieciently to prevent any fatal damage.

So far everything thats in place for safety has worked... The questions is has it worked well enough? From what I understand Massa is alive and looks to be doing well. The helmet protected him from what is one of the most extreme accidents possible in this kind of racing. Measures could be taken to improve it's design, but it saved his life regardless.

I think it is a MASSIVE ask to expect such an accident to occur and for a driver to simply jump out and walk off. We see more of that in this modern day because of the increased safety but I don't think we can ever expect it 100% of the time.

I personally don't like the idea of enclosing the driver in such a small space. If a high speed impact was to occur and say for example this canopy cracked in half, you'd have a relatively thin edge now free to slice through the driver. What if this spring hit a canopy, smashed it and the pieces then hit the driver like sharp knives? They don't need to be sharp at all, 5mm even 10mm think at the speeds we are dealing with will EASILY severely injure a driver.

My question is, why didn't a marshall spot Barichello's car dropping pieces on the track at turn 3 and issue yellow flags?

[jddh1]

Lets look at the facts.

Massa's helmet succesfully protected his head from the impact of the spring, he took some injury but he's alive.

Massa's car protected his legs and body from the impact with the tyre barrier.

Massa's HANS device seems to have helped reduce the force through his neck and the base of the skull suffieciently to prevent any fatal damage.

So far everything thats in place for safety has worked... The questions is has it worked well enough? From what I understand Massa is alive and looks to be doing well. The helmet protected him from what is one of the most extreme accidents possible in this kind of racing. Measures could be taken to improve it's design, but it saved his life regardless.

I think it is a MASSIVE ask to expect such an accident to occur and for a driver to simply jump out and walk off. We see more of that in this modern day because of the increased safety but I don't think we can ever expect it 100% of the time.

I personally don't like the idea of enclosing the driver in such a small space. If a high speed impact was to occur and say for example this canopy cracked in half, you'd have a relatively thin edge now free to slice through the driver. What if this spring hit a canopy, smashed it and the pieces then hit the driver like sharp knives? They don't need to be sharp at all, 5mm even 10mm think at the speeds we are dealing with will EASILY severely injure a driver.

My question is, why didn't a marshall spot Barichello's car dropping pieces on the track at turn 3 and issue yellow flags?

Really well put, Diesel.
I agree on the canopy idea. The cons outweigh the pros in this case, in my opinion.

[andartop]

Lets look at the facts.

Massa's helmet succesfully protected his head from the impact of the spring, he took some injury but he's alive.

Massa's car protected his legs and body from the impact with the tyre barrier.

Massa's HANS device seems to have helped reduce the force through his neck and the base of the skull suffieciently to prevent any fatal damage.

So far everything thats in place for safety has worked... The questions is has it worked well enough? From what I understand Massa is alive and looks to be doing well. The helmet protected him from what is one of the most extreme accidents possible in this kind of racing. Measures could be taken to improve it's design, but it saved his life regardless.

I think it is a MASSIVE ask to expect such an accident to occur and for a driver to simply jump out and walk off. We see more of that in this modern day because of the increased safety but I don't think we can ever expect it 100% of the time.

Exactly. As others have pointed out earlier in this thread, the focus of any investigation should be how on earth that spring came off the Brawn car in the first place.

[modbaraban]

My question is, why didn't a marshall spot Barichello's car dropping pieces on the track at turn 3 and issue yellow flags?

I guess because it didn't even land before Massa hit it. Barrichello was only 4 seconds ahead.

Exactly. As others have pointed out earlier in this thread, the focus of any investigation should be how on earth that spring came off the Brawn car in the first place.

Cars will always break and parts will fall off. If not due to failures, than due to collisions.

[i70q7m7ghw]

My question is, why didn't a marshall spot Barichello's car dropping pieces on the track at turn 3 and issue yellow flags?

I guess because it didn't even land before Massa hit it. Barrichello was only 4 seconds ahead.

I'm not so sure... Parts where falling off as he exited turn 3, massa had his accident approximately halfway between turn 3 & 4. The spring probably bounced up the road a fair bit, but someone should have spotted something at turn 3 and waved flags as they saw Massa coming round the corner. I guess it would have all happened very quickly. As you say parts will always be a hazard, I think the key problem was Massa was driving full speed in to a hazard without knowing.

[jonathan189]

Update: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 169915.stm

Ferrari's Felipe Massa's condition is "severe but not critical" after surgery on his fractured skull in Hungary.

Surgeon Robert Veres said that Massa, 28, suffered damage to his left eye when he who was hit by a spring from Ruben Barrichello's car on Saturday.

"I am sure (his eye was damaged) but we do not know the extent yet, I don't know (if he can return) it's too early to say anything concerning his future."

"However the immediate life-threatening condition has been averted," he added.

[ESPImperium]

What im wanting to know, is how the eff did a pice the size it did come out of the back of Rubens car. I could see how it could have came ouot of a Red Bull/STR/Renault or Williams, but the Brawn is baffeling me how it came out.

[Giblet]

I don't understand why the Brawn would be any different to having a possible failure somewhere on the vehicle compared to the others you have mentioned.

[jonathan189]

ESPN has an informative article: http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/racing/f1 ... id=4358127

Several fragments of bone from the skull had to be removed during the operation, Veres said.

Doctors were particularly concerned about injuries to the 28-year-old Brazilian's left eye, but Veres said they didn't yet "know the quality of this damage."

"We don't know exactly because without operation it's very hard to evaluate function," Veres told reporters from the AEK military hospital, where Ferrari president Luca di Montezemelo was also visiting Monday.

Veres said no more operations were planned at the moment, but couldn't rule out further surgery if his condition deteriorates.

"Anytime can be worse because of the complications, the nature of these injuries," he said. "He has a brain contusion. It's fine now. A focal contusion because of the impact of the metal piece."

Veres remained hopeful that Massa would walk again, as he was slowly recovering his motor skills and responding to doctors requests to move limbs. He remained on a respirator and would be sedated until his condition improved further.

[jonathan189]

And here's Martin Brundle's view: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 170736.stm

A solution I can envisage is a partial clear canopy with struts and deflectors, complete with a ballistic or quick release mechanism. Neither of these however would guarantee to have prevented Massa's injury where a relatively small object was involved.

I experienced the end of an era where to some hardened characters in the paddock, a driver was like a light bulb - one goes out and so you put another one in. In today's world people will not readily tolerate fatalities in the name of sport. The car manufacturers and sponsors do not want their products associated with death; safety and performance are what they are selling.

A new step forward is needed with an elegant solution. It's well within their ability for F1 designers to create something but it will take a while to research, develop and implement.

^^ agreed.

[DaveKillens]

Massa went through one of the worse kinds of injuries possible. During the first 24 hours, this injury was treated as potentially life-threatening. That's how serious it is. There were multiple skull fractures, some bone fragments were removed, and he is in an induced coma. There is some swelling of the brain.
Folks, he's receiving proper and competent medical treatment, but he's not out of the woods, by a long shot. Any complication such as bleeding of the brain or swelling can lead to complications that could threaten his life. Right now the more important question is whether he will survive. The odds improve each minute.
And even if he does get back on his feet, brain damage may guarantee that he will never recover the reflexes and ability to race in Formula One.
Will he be back before the end of the season? Definitely not. Will he be back in 2010? Most likely not. Will Massa ever return to Formula One? Right now it's 50-50.

[WhiteBlue]

You can compare the accident with Wendlinger's. He eventually spend 19 days in coma fighting for his life. Felipe's accident appears to be more benighn. It is still scary, but if the eye is fine and no brain damage he should be fit to race in a month or two.

[Ray]

I knew Felipe was a small guy but seeing that picture of someone literally picking him up in his arms and carrying him from the car blew me away. He's tiny! But he has the heart of a lion! I can't tell you how much it pains me to see someone suffer an accident like this when some many others around the world do other men harm and never have anything bad fall on them.

[jddh1]

At what speed do you estimate he hit the tire wall at? I heard on the news it was close to 200km/h but in the video it looks nothing like that fast.

SpeedTV quoted 60 mph/100 kph

Looked like more than that. But it's my estimation so take it for what it is.


Also, everyone feel free to admire the reflexes of these special drivers, that even when he was knocked out he still hit the brake pedal.

[jddh1]

Massa is off forced comma right now. Apparently he answered a few questions. Brain scans did not pick up on any damage so it seems well.
I'd wait till they get him to Paris this weekend though.