ValeVida46 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2023, 19:52
That's not how this works. Referring to yourself as reference does not validate the reference.
I referred to my post because it looked like you might have overlooked it. That happens - i sometimes overlook posts as well.
ValeVida46 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2023, 19:52
Initiating any investigation based on media speculation is overreach. There is no 2 ways about it, the FIA initated an investigation that fell foul of FIA's own ethical principles.
Who can make a complaint/refer an alleged breach of the FIA's ethical principles
FIA Members
officers, members, or licence-holders of FIA Members
officials, organisers, drivers, competitors and licence-holders
You may note that media speculation is absent.
Here's a link to familiarise yourself with.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cess).pdf
You may note the start of the document in question, which - in it's very first section - states the following:
These Guidelines do not amend the FIA Statutes or the Code in any way, nor do they limit the discretion of the Ethics Committee. The FIA Ethics Committee reserves the right to amend these Guidelines at any time. The purpose of these Guidelines is to explain how the Ethics Committee applies these rules in practice. They are published on the FIA website.
These are guidelines, and as stated, they do not limit the ethical commitees discretion in any way. It's just like the overtaking guidelines: They are not a rule of law, and the Ethics committee has the ultimate discretion at the end of the day, including taking up their own investigations.
And as
mwillems notes, anyone inside the FIA can read the media and refer a potential case.
ValeVida46 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2023, 19:52
If you are going to conduct investigations based on what media speculation is throwing around, all a team has to do is spin a yarn in the Sun or Mail and bingo...FIA MUST investigate.
As I have shown from the FIA's own standard, they cannot do so based on media whims, as they have done here.
MBS initiated this, and it's no surprise he wont be in the limelight at the FIA gala tonight as it was an embarrassment of epic proportions.
You didn't show that. Rather, you misinterpreted the document you read.
What some people don't seem to understand is that an investigation is NOT an accusation. The point of an investigation is to determine what is going on, if anything at all, and gather evidence (before it disappears), if any even exists.
Therefore, it's common for investigations to be conducted even on slight suspicions, as long as the
tools used in the investigation isn't disproportional (for example, in a police investigation, you need more than slight suspicions to get warrants for example). In this case, the FIA didn't use any disproportional tools. They contacted the FOM and requested they clarify their procedures for securing confidential information. The FOM responded, the FIA reviewed it and determined it was sufficent.
Now imagine the alternative scenario: Imagine if the FIA had decided not to investigate this (or not announce it). The media would then be filled with stories about the FIA not taking action, and anti-Mercedes people would still be repeating the story that Suzie should be fired from FOM, or Toto was getting secret info (they probably still will, but likely not to the same degree), and the teams might not have issued their statements. That's not exactly doing the Wolffs any favors either. In this case, we're dealing with a media story that got pretty big. Even if the allegations were very loose at best, NOT investigating it would have caused speculation that would not be to the benefit of the Wolffs either.
We need to recognize that the cause of all of this lies with the publication that caused all of this, and - FIA investigation or not - that the Wolffs were always going to suffer for this in one way or another.
Also, one final thing regarding how in investigations are done...
dans79 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2023, 19:57
not saying anything to the individuals in question doesn't do them any favors!
...If you're the subject of the investigation, you're not entitled to be told. That might compromise an investigation, allow subjects to collude etc. That's why it's rarely done. It's not standard practice.
Now, obviously neither Toto nor Suzie deserved this obvious slander article that was initially written about them, and which turned out to be bollocks. In fact, I'm a little ashamed that i posted it in the first place, but i also kinda knew ahead of time that this would blow up.
But they've shot themselves massively in the foot the way they handled it. After the article was published, the FIA had pretty much no choice but to investigate, otherwise they would find themself under criticism for inaction. And ripping into the FIA for that is... well, simply plain d*mb. If you want to go to war with the FIA, this is not the way to do it.