2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[BMMR61]

Someone catch me up please... Why do we think McLaren will shakedown at Silverstone before the Bahrain test?

Is this from the team, media or just speculation?

Can't just find it but I'm pretty sure the team announced that the same day as the official launch (February 14) the car would be packed off to Silverstone for "filming". Can someone explain the regulatory limits on this outing?

[scuderiabrandon]

Someone catch me up please... Why do we think McLaren will shakedown at Silverstone before the Bahrain test?

Is this from the team, media or just speculation?

Can't just find it but I'm pretty sure the team announced that the same day as the official launch (February 14) the car would be packed off to Silverstone for "filming". Can someone explain the regulatory limits on this outing?

IIRC the shakedown has a 15km limit.

filming days are limited to 200km (previously 100km), fitted with FIA spec ECU to make sure teams aren't collecting data I would assume. Also Pirelli provide the tyres for the test, which I believe are also different from the ones used in season

"The car must be fitted with the standard FIA ECU for the filming day and, as outlined in Article 8.3.1 of the Technical Regulations, may only be used with FIA-approved software and may only be connected to the control system wiring loom, sensors and actuators in a manner specified by the FIA."

"Finally, to ensure the teams can’t perform any sneaky performance runs, Pirelli supply specific tyres for use on filming days. These compounds are hard as a rock, may even resemble wet-weather tyres in terms of grooves and patterns, and are incredibly long-lifed – they are demonstration tyres which are often used for the demonstration runs (with umpteen burn-outs and donuts) that teams (think Red Bull) often carry out in cities around the world with older cars."

[FittingMechanics]

Someone catch me up please... Why do we think McLaren will shakedown at Silverstone before the Bahrain test?

Is this from the team, media or just speculation?

The Race podcast about McLaren livery.

Apparently team called up journalists to MTC saying it's a meet and greet (usual stuff over winter), but they surprised them with the livery reveal. The journalist who was there said the team said they will have a shakedown at Silverstone on 14th. From memory he said Mercedes is having a shakedown the same day and he speculated that McLaren and Mercedes booked Silverstone for half a day each. There were jokes they may race each other.

So, the source is media which was apparently told by the team.

[SmallSoldier]

It will depend on what changes are made to the car and if they need to validate new developments first… Depending the architectural changes to the chasis, they may decide to test with the 2023 aero package (if it can be used with the new chassis) to validate the mechanical improvements before they use the new aero package on the car.

From an aero perspective, they may also introduce parts during testing in an step process to validate parts individually.

Nice to see you again. I've always appreciated your posts here

Both of those would be intriguing as we haven't seen that happen in '22 or '23 preseason testing had we?

From a McLaren perspective, 22 was a brand new car… So it was about testing the concept… in 23, they already knew that they had the wrong concept and the new was in development during testing, so not an step process.

This year, been an evolution of the previous year’s car, if they are making changes to the chassis (as expected if they are trying to fix some of the mechanical issues of the ‘23 car), it wouldn’t be surprising to bring updates to testing in an step process… If something doesn’t work “as expected” and all new parts are thrown at the same time, it could be hard to understand which parts are creating a problem.

Also, in testing you want to have a base line to measure the improvements against… Your best baseline will be based on a concept you know and understand.

[SmallSoldier]

It will depend on what changes are made to the car and if they need to validate new developments first… Depending the architectural changes to the chasis, they may decide to test with the 2023 aero package (if it can be used with the new chassis) to validate the mechanical improvements before they use the new aero package on the car.

From an aero perspective, they may also introduce parts during testing in an step process to validate parts individually.

I'm sure there will be an iterative process, I wouldn't suggest the car starting the testing will be the car finishing it as they will want to benchmark certain aspects and review the impact of each part. But I would expect it to look closer to the 24 car than the 23 and probably by a margin.

But as for using '23 parts, this may well be possible because it is in many ways what happened with the Austria update in that updates were brought that would work as a package at each race and with some older parts on the car, until the entire aero package was overhauled in the next 3 races. So the first update was the Sidepods, Floor, diffuser, engine cover etc... but this still covered the bulk of the car. The reason being that the parts are far less independent and the balance far more sensitive now.

But then those parts new in season were designed for that MCL60 chassis, cooling layout etc Are they that compatible? Everything tends to be quite a tight fit on these cars are we expecting the internals to not change much?

I’m just speculating… We really don’t know the extent of the changes… I would be surprised if the sidepods (from a volume perspective) vary dramatically (and I hope I am).

My expectation is that the team will try to avoid having to find any issues for lack of correlation (if any)… Going into testing assuming that your correlation will be 100% is a mistake in itself and if you introduce too many changes at once, it could prove hard to understand the culprit (if any).

They very well, bring a whole new car and running it from day 1… That just isn’t my expectation… I’m not saying that the whole car in testing will be the ‘23 car, the sidepods and engine cover for example may be the ‘24 car (because as you well said, they could be needed if there are require for any layout changes), but I would expect them to introduce new parts during the testing process.

[mwillems]

It will depend on what changes are made to the car and if they need to validate new developments first… Depending the architectural changes to the chasis, they may decide to test with the 2023 aero package (if it can be used with the new chassis) to validate the mechanical improvements before they use the new aero package on the car.

From an aero perspective, they may also introduce parts during testing in an step process to validate parts individually.

I'm sure there will be an iterative process, I wouldn't suggest the car starting the testing will be the car finishing it as they will want to benchmark certain aspects and review the impact of each part. But I would expect it to look closer to the 24 car than the 23 and probably by a margin.

But as for using '23 parts, this may well be possible because it is in many ways what happened with the Austria update in that updates were brought that would work as a package at each race and with some older parts on the car, until the entire aero package was overhauled in the next 3 races. So the first update was the Sidepods, Floor, diffuser, engine cover etc... but this still covered the bulk of the car. The reason being that the parts are far less independent and the balance far more sensitive now.

But then those parts new in season were designed for that MCL60 chassis, cooling layout etc Are they that compatible? Everything tends to be quite a tight fit on these cars are we expecting the internals to not change much?

I’m just speculating… We really don’t know the extent of the changes… I would be surprised if the sidepods (from a volume perspective) vary dramatically (and I hope I am).

My expectation is that the team will try to avoid having to find any issues for lack of correlation (if any)… Going into testing assuming that your correlation will be 100% is a mistake in itself and if you introduce too many changes at once, it could prove hard to understand the culprit (if any).

They very well, bring a whole new car and running it from day 1… That just isn’t my expectation… I’m not saying that the whole car in testing will be the ‘23 car, the sidepods and engine cover for example may be the ‘24 car (because as you well said, they could be needed if there are require for any layout changes), but I would expect them to introduce new parts during the testing process.

I agree, I don't think it will all arrive on Day 1 either, what I mean to say is that at testing I think we will see the developed car, whether it arrives in one go or in increments. The Front and Rear wing may well be from last years car, but I'd think everything else will be new. Floor, Diffuser, Engine Cover, Sidepods,Halo, mirrors...

I'd need to find where it was printed but the cooling layout is going to change from what I recall. We know they are going to make changes to the platform as Stella has also said this. Might this just be chassis and weight distribution or might this be suspension and ride height also? We know that other teams are saying they no longer need wider sidepods at the front to deal with dirty air and this is something that Mclaren are looking at. We will see but I'd be surprised if there isn't a lot of changes.

In terms of volume (amount), it's different to scope I think. The volume of the Austria update was big but the scope of the changes on several of the parts was small, there were minor modifications to ensure the right airflow to all areas of the car and so subtle changes were made to Aero and the rear suspension layout. So I'm not suggesting what the scope will be, but as Stella has explained, all these parts are very sensitive to one another, so I'm expecting the volume to be substantial and hoping the scope of the change is big in a positive fashion.

[trinidefender]

I see people here talking about using 2023 parts on the 2024 car. I see that as highly unlikely. For both a physically fitting perspective and from an aerodynamic/car concept position.

The only parts that might fit at all are the rear wing and maybe the front wing if the 23 and 24 nose cones are the same.

More importantly is that of those two parts that might fit; the rear wing might be viable to check drag levels but the issue with test the 23 front wing on the 24 car is that the front wing sets up the airflow for the rest of the car. It is highly likely that the 23 wing will simply not work with the downstream aero of the 24 car.

From a holistic car concept point of view the suspension is largely secondary to the aero and has been for a few decades. Yes of course it has to absorb bumps but that is largely to absorb said bump while maintaining a level enough platform for the aero to work. Using 23 parts on a 24 car with different aero levels and balance would give false data about the mechanical aspect of the 24 car.

I really don't see it happening with any part other than the rear wing and maybe one or two small parts.

[mwillems]

Agreed, those are the only parts that could fit and I don't see the front wing as viable.

Aside from everything mentioned so far, this is a short single 3 day test to also maximise understanding of the setup, I doubt they will spend time on anything from the '23 car unless they have correlation issues.

But at the same time, it is possible that the front and rear wing may be last years for some reason and we shouldn't discount SmallSoldier's idea that they may do some YoY comparison.

[mwillems]

Regarding platform and suspension, this formula has elevated their importance as the ability to maintain the right floor profile relative to the track is crucial to extracting downforce. Each corner of the car working to keep the floor the optimum distance through braking, acceleration and all corner profiles to keep the sensitive Aero working.

Just look at Norris mid straight spin last tear at 200kph after a bump.

So I wouldn't say it is secondary, it seems intrinsic to making the aero work, aero and the platform are one and both essential to success.

[trinidefender]

Regarding platform and suspension, this formula has elevated their importance as the ability to maintain the right floor profile relative to the track is crucial to extracting downforce. Each corner of the car working to keep the floor the optimum distance through braking, acceleration and all corner profiles to keep the sensitive Aero working.

Just look at Norris mid straight spin last tear at 200kph after a bump.

So I wouldn't say it is secondary, it seems intrinsic to making the aero work, aero and the platform are one and both essential to success.

When I say secondary I don't mean in terms of importance. I mean that it can't really be compared to a car with low or no down force. It's job is mostly about maintaining that stable aero platform so when the suspension is designed it's designed based on aero requirements. Aero requirements aren't based on suspension design.

That's what I mean by secondary

[mwillems]

Thanks I understand what you mean now. Though the pedant in me wants to say that the Aero will be designed to operate in the window the platform is expected to provide. A better platform can allow the aero to be designed to work consistently closer to its peak efficiency which tends to be a more focused aero design, which on a car with a lesser platform would be peaky and a bit unpredictable. Exactly what the MCL60 could be. But the platforms role is clearer and defined by the aero concept and not the other way round as you say.

I can see some benefit of an aero test with the front wing to learn more about the new car.

Same principal as the RW and Beam Wings mix and matching. Don't waste time in CFD, bolt them on and see what happens. But it's more for Aero learning. Everything you need to understand about the platform performance will come from the sensors, not aero testing.

[mwillems]

Ralf Schumacher on Norris and Piastri, amongst others.

“McLaren could be possible. I have to say I’m a big fan of Oscar. The only thing is he seems still to be a bit weak in racing [conditions]. I think his qualifying performance is amazing, he never makes a mistake and he’s always there. So that’s great.

“And Lando is an amazing racer, but maybe sometimes he wants a bit too much in qualifying. And he could be the one I think to challenge Max if the car [is good enough].”

[BMMR61]

Ralf Schumacher on Norris and Piastri, amongst others.

“McLaren could be possible. I have to say I’m a big fan of Oscar. The only thing is he seems still to be a bit weak in racing [conditions]. I think his qualifying performance is amazing, he never makes a mistake and he’s always there. So that’s great.

“And Lando is an amazing racer, but maybe sometimes he wants a bit too much in qualifying. And he could be the one I think to challenge Max if the car [is good enough].”

Saying Oscar is "a bit weak in racing" is a pretty weak observation from an F1 racer of not too distant experience, but maybe that was just a product of a less than probing interview. Lando in his 2019 rookie year was excellent in qualifying (shaded Carlos if I recall) but scored half the total of Carlos by season end. The point is we expect Oscar to significantly up his game as Lando undoubtedly did by 2021, I'm not talking rocket science just the obvious. It's well accepted that the current large, heavy cars with the tyres they have are quite tricky to get the best of over stints at race pace and this is where Piastri is having to be a real student.

The lessons McLaren undoubtedly learned about their car in going from also-ran to regular podium achiever, in terms of strengths and weaknesses, what the car responds to by way of aero and all the other setup tweaks, almost always placed the car in a position to fight for good points, regardless of how well the car performed out of the box on Fridays. This indicated they had a good handle on the MCL60 in all it's stages of development, including how the development parts interacted. Compare Ferrari, and especially Mercedes, and there was so much confusion, chaos even, in getting the car to a race worthy state on Sundays - they really look like they are both in catch up mode more than McLaren with their correlation and understanding. Despite my limited understanding of the talked about new, state of the art simulation tools McLaren is now using, this should at least, in theory, give the team another leg up. This may assist them to challenge for second in the WCC (maybe even challenge for first if Checo has another pretty appealing season) and most importantly, to reduce the race pace advantage to RedBull, whatever a satisfying improvement may look like.

[djos]

Agreed, Oscar is an excellent racer, it’s managing tire life that is is weakness.

[organic]

In junior categories and in his F2 season it was seen as a weakness of his. It's a phenomenon with these mega-talents that isn't so uncommon. Because they're often so much faster than their peers, they aren't getting as much experience racing wheel to wheel as a driver that's a bit less talented.

But I've seen no signs that this carried over to F1