2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[CjC]

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

Post 2018 RB cars have a notorious reputation. The cars have become extreme on the balance side and Max has evolved into adapting to the traits more than anyone else. Lando is friends with Albon and he probably has learnt from him about these traits. If it was a case of RB building W11 type of cars which are smooth and fits every driver, then Lando would make a jump, but with the kind of reputation the RB cars have, it's not easy for anyone, even the Max of the past to get in those cars and beat Max of today. That's how I read the difficulty of any talented driver going to RB. On top of that, I don't think RB would change the traits of the car if results are coming, only to make another driver comfortable. I am sure those are definite things Lando would have calculated.

Fair, but then will Lando stay at Mclaren for the rest of his career even if they never build a car that is fast enough? How long will these calculations hold, if RB continues to be the best team?

Lando will be hoping Max retires before he turns 30

[Macklaren]

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

I think your point is exactly what Lando is saying as well if you watched his excellent Sky interview yesterday. He effectively said that he's pretty confident that he can do well in the Red Bull but there is no point going into a team and car that is already built around the driver -- esp. one as good as Max. Very different than your Merc/Lewis example above. Yes, Charles beat Vettel at a Ferrari that was built around Seb but that was merely happenstance given where Charles was in his career at the time...there is no way the Charles of today would make a move like that

[AR3-GP]

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

I think your point is exactly what Lando is saying as well if you watched his excellent Sky interview yesterday. He effectively said that he's pretty confident that he can do well in the Red Bull but there is no point going into a team and car that is already built around the driver -- esp. one as good as Max. Very different than your Merc/Lewis example above. Yes, Charles beat Vettel at a Ferrari that was built around Seb but that was merely happenstance given where Charles was in his career at the time...there is no way the Charles of today would make a move like that

I understand your point of view, but if the only way to see a championship fight is to put another star driver in the 2nd RB seat, but when any star driver is offered the opportunity, he makes the same arguments that Norris has done and is furthermore being applauded for it, then are we not supporting more boring championships?

This is also perhaps not a Norris specific criticism. I have heard the same advice proposed for Charles Leclerc to remain at Ferrari but if that is the case, then one shouldn't wonder why RB can only get someone like Perez in their 2nd car and why the championships continue to be boring.

[mwillems]

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

I think your point is exactly what Lando is saying as well if you watched his excellent Sky interview yesterday. He effectively said that he's pretty confident that he can do well in the Red Bull but there is no point going into a team and car that is already built around the driver -- esp. one as good as Max. Very different than your Merc/Lewis example above. Yes, Charles beat Vettel at a Ferrari that was built around Seb but that was merely happenstance given where Charles was in his career at the time...there is no way the Charles of today would make a move like that

I understand your point of view, but if the only way to see a championship fight is to put another star driver in the 2nd RB seat, but when any star driver is offered the opportunity, he makes the same arguments that Norris has done and is furthermore being applauded for it, then are we not supporting more boring championships?

This is also perhaps not a Norris specific criticism. I have heard the same advice proposed for Charles Leclerc to remain at Ferrari but if that is the case, then one shouldn't wonder why RB can only get someone like Perez in their 2nd car and why the championships continue to be boring.

The conversation was more about the logic of it, so this seems to be moving the conversation towards something else.

I agree, I'd love to see Alonso or Ham in the seat next to him, we haven't had a Senna/Prost for years and we'd all love it.

But it is seperate question from whether it is sensible, for the teams or the drivers.

[mwillems]

The build up begins!

McLaren’s 2024 car, the MCL38, will be an “innovative evolution” of last year’s MCL60, revealed team boss Andrea Stella.

“But for the bulk, most of the improvement from an aerodynamic efficiency point of view, mechanical grip, interaction with the tyres, it will come from many details that not necessarily will be so clearly visible.”

Nice to see they will be addressing the Mechanical grip and the way the car interacts with the tyres.

[Marc.W]

McLaren’s 2024 car, the MCL38, will be an “innovative evolution” of last year’s MCL60, revealed team boss Andrea Stella.

“But for the bulk, most of the improvement from an aerodynamic efficiency point of view, mechanical grip, interaction with the tyres, it will come from many details that not necessarily will be so clearly visible.”

Nice to hear one of the first thing Stella says is that they will be addressing the Mechanical grip and the way the car interacts with the tyres, although this was pretty much nailed on.

Seems like they're seeing the same kind of gains that the Austria and Singapore updates brought

"“The investment of resources is ultimately to put McLaren in a condition to keep the gradient of development that we established last year that led to the development in Austria, Singapore,” he said.

“We needed to make sure that we are not plateauing now, that we keep these gradients of development. This is what we seem to have been able to do so far.""

EDIT: Not gains, but rate of development

[Macklaren]

Absolutely wild that Lando is being heckled on social media for being "scared" of Max...WTF is wrong with people?? This is the most sensible, mature, logical decision in the world and people want him to take the 2nd RBR seat just for lolz? I give up

[scuderiabrandon]

Absolutely wild that Lando is being heckled on social media for being "scared" of Max...WTF is wrong with people?? This is the most sensible, mature, logical decision in the world and people want him to take the 2nd RBR seat just for lolz? I give up

Jobless behavior from people that are extremely bored

[mwillems]

McLaren’s 2024 car, the MCL38, will be an “innovative evolution” of last year’s MCL60, revealed team boss Andrea Stella.

“But for the bulk, most of the improvement from an aerodynamic efficiency point of view, mechanical grip, interaction with the tyres, it will come from many details that not necessarily will be so clearly visible.”

Nice to hear one of the first thing Stella says is that they will be addressing the Mechanical grip and the way the car interacts with the tyres, although this was pretty much nailed on.

Seems like they're seeing the same kind of gains that the Austria and Singapore updates brought

"“The investment of resources is ultimately to put McLaren in a condition to keep the gradient of development that we established last year that led to the development in Austria, Singapore,” he said.

“We needed to make sure that we are not plateauing now, that we keep these gradients of development. This is what we seem to have been able to do so far.""

EDIT: Not gains, but rate of development

Yes they'd said this in some other articles. They also said that the Austria and Singapore upgrades were in development for around 4 months between them and the time gained there was substantial.

How many man hours went into the new car?

I wouldn't want to try and put a number on it but it feels like they think they've surpassed the half second gain Zak was talking about being the minimum to keep up with RB.

I'm interested to see which parts look quite different.

[CjC]

Absolutely wild that Lando is being heckled on social media for being "scared" of Max...WTF is wrong with people?? This is the most sensible, mature, logical decision in the world and people want him to take the 2nd RBR seat just for lolz? I give up

I’d imagine the swell people of social media will apologise and/or retract their statement if Lando ever becomes a WDC

[billamend]

In a lot of ways, Lando is held to a standard that other drivers aren't. Ricciardo literally ran away from a fight with Max. Leclerc renews with Ferrari and it's a beautiful story of loyalty. Lando renews with McLaren and he is afraid of Max.

Even with hi team mates. Piastri got close in qualy, but far in race pace, and yet everyone says that Lando is screwed. No other driver gets hold to this standards.

[djos]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mours-fear

Lando saying that being Verstappens team mate would not be a smart move.

"He’s in a team which he’s very comfortable in, a lot of things are built around him, so for anyone – even the Max of a few years ago – to go in against the Max of now is extremely difficult.

“So I don’t think it’s a question of: are you scared or not scared? I don’t think I’d ever be scared of going up against anyone.

“But even if you enter a team, are you in a position to challenge someone straight away? And are you comfortable to do that?

“And I think it’s a ‘no’ – for any driver. It takes time to adapt and takes time to get into place.

“And if you want to go against the best driver in the world, it’s not the best thing to do. It’s not a smart move to do.

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

I respect Vettel as a driver, because really, any 4x WDC deserves nothing less. But the majority of the fanbase as well as members of paddock never rated Vettel as high as they have the likes of Lewis, Max and to be honest, even Alonso who statistically is quite a way back.

So yeah, Leclerc beating Vettel when he jumped to Ferrari was impressive, but I feel like it doesn't hold the same "oomph" as any driver jumping into RB right now and beating (or heck, even challenging) Max. He is an exceptional talent who at this point is pretty much the ultimate well-oiled machine together with a record-breaking car he seems to be the only one able to tame it.

I honestly believe no driver can jump into RB right now and be on Max's level from the get go, not even Lewis. And I fully agree with Lando here, that in order to beat Max, you have to do it by building up your own team. Because it's not happening if you go and join Max's team.

Agreed, Vettel is quality but to be fair he only won his first title when Mark and Fernando had a shocking last race and he pulled a Bradbury!

The rest of his tiles were thanks to Newey getting the blown diffuser working all the way through the corner, before that Mark was generally faster than he was.

And then when the blown diffuser was banned as part of the V6 hybrid era, Daniel wiped the floor with him.

So imo those circumstances tarnish his achievements somewhat. His results at Ferrari and Aston Martin tend to confirm this.

Norris and Piastri will never have this problem, they both shown what they can do in a tricky to drive car.

[mwillems]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... mate-claim

"Lando Norris has said Oscar Piastri is already proving a tougher challenge on the other side of the McLaren garage than both Carlos Sainz and Daniel Ricciardo."

[organic]

Didn't Carlos beat Lando both years on pts by a decent margin

[mendis]

To be fair, Leclerc went to Ferrari in 2019 and beat Vettel in the WDC and had 2 wins to 1 for Vettel (which was nearly 4-0). There's also bit of evidence to suggest that Mattia Binotto was not really supporting Leclerc but his talent could not be hidden or denied by any amount of internal politics. Then we have Hamilton who went to Mercedes in 2013 and beat incumbent Rosberg 3 years in a row, same story.

Norris's unwillingness to go to RB does suggest he's not confident. If Norris was being offered a RB seat and Perez was his teammate and Perez had been at RB for 7 years, then he'd be saying goodbye to Mclaren. Not going to RB is more than just "the other guy is comfortable". It's 100%, the other guy is Max Verstappen.

I respect Vettel as a driver, because really, any 4x WDC deserves nothing less. But the majority of the fanbase as well as members of paddock never rated Vettel as high as they have the likes of Lewis, Max and to be honest, even Alonso who statistically is quite a way back.

So yeah, Leclerc beating Vettel when he jumped to Ferrari was impressive, but I feel like it doesn't hold the same "oomph" as any driver jumping into RB right now and beating (or heck, even challenging) Max. He is an exceptional talent who at this point is pretty much the ultimate well-oiled machine together with a record-breaking car he seems to be the only one able to tame it.

I honestly believe no driver can jump into RB right now and be on Max's level from the get go, not even Lewis. And I fully agree with Lando here, that in order to beat Max, you have to do it by building up your own team. Because it's not happening if you go and join Max's team.

Agreed, Vettel is quality but to be fair he only won his first title when Mark and Fernando had a shocking last race and he pulled a Bradbury!

The rest of his tiles were thanks to Newey getting the blown diffuser working all the way through the corner, before that Mark was generally faster than he was.

And then when the blown diffuser was banned as part of the V6 hybrid era, Daniel wiped the floor with him.

What's wrong with the guy in the other car who couldn't win in the same machinery?

When Daniel failed in McLaren, it was the car that was the problem, but when Vettel failed in 2014, it's Daniel who beat him.

Using your own analogy, we can say Lando wiped the floor with Daniel.