2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[geogate]

the interesting thing to me is just how evasive they are being - very un-mclaren like. I dont think anyone has really had a good view of what was on the track, and the earlier picture releases clearly have a fair bit of rendering

[mwillems]

Stella has also mentioned diminishing returns for the first time as well today.
He still sounds confident the same development curve can be maintained over the season but by the end of 2024 ‘it’ll be harder for the designers to find improvement’.

Newey and Horner have been saying that all winter so could they be almost a whole seasons worth of development ahead already??

Could you give the source/interview where he mentions diminishing returns?
One thing that makes me wonder is, we have his words during the winter mentioning that the development curve was still steepened and that no such diminishing returns had been found, I think everyone knows the excerpt I am mentioning. I don't understand why the change of idea in this short amount of time

Just a few posts above from luscion.

[the EDGE]

Stella has also mentioned diminishing returns for the first time as well today.
He still sounds confident the same development curve can be maintained over the season but by the end of 2024 ‘it’ll be harder for the designers to find improvement’.

Newey and Horner have been saying that all winter so could they be almost a whole seasons worth of development ahead already??

Could you give the source/interview where he mentions diminishing returns?
One thing that makes me wonder is, we have his words during the winter mentioning that the development curve was still steepened and that no such diminishing returns had been found, I think everyone knows the excerpt I am mentioning. I don't understand why the change of idea in this short amount of time, did they just find out very recently?

The interview is posted a few comments back

[KimiRai]

Thank you

[BMMR61]

Stella has also mentioned diminishing returns for the first time as well today.
He still sounds confident the same development curve can be maintained over the season but by the end of 2024 ‘it’ll be harder for the designers to find improvement’.

Newey and Horner have been saying that all winter so could they be almost a whole seasons worth of development ahead already??

Could you give the source/interview where he mentions diminishing returns?
One thing that makes me wonder is, we have his words during the winter mentioning that the development curve was still steepened and that no such diminishing returns had been found, I think everyone knows the excerpt I am mentioning. I don't understand why the change of idea in this short amount of time, did they just find out very recently?

I assume that in this instance (and I haven't found this yet for the record) he may be talking about the age old trend of diminishing trends. As a formula, or, specification, gets developed year on year, the incremental returns and possibilities decrease. I haven't seen evidence of anything counter to Stella's encouraging statement that the pace of McLaren's upward momentum looks to continue at a similar rate to last year, which we take as being what they see in simulation. We shall see.

[KimiRai]

Stella has also mentioned diminishing returns for the first time as well today.
He still sounds confident the same development curve can be maintained over the season but by the end of 2024 ‘it’ll be harder for the designers to find improvement’.

Newey and Horner have been saying that all winter so could they be almost a whole seasons worth of development ahead already??

Could you give the source/interview where he mentions diminishing returns?
One thing that makes me wonder is, we have his words during the winter mentioning that the development curve was still steepened and that no such diminishing returns had been found, I think everyone knows the excerpt I am mentioning. I don't understand why the change of idea in this short amount of time, did they just find out very recently?

I assume that in this instance (and I haven't found this yet for the record) he may be talking about the age old trend of diminishing trends. As a formula, or, specification, gets developed year on year, the incremental returns and possibilities decrease. I haven't seen evidence of anything counter to Stella's encouraging statement that the pace of McLaren's upward momentum looks to continue at a similar rate to last year, which we take as being what they see in simulation. We shall see.

Yes Im aware. It doesn't have to be a bad thing that he's said this really, it is in line with most of other team principals/technical director statements recently. It could also mean they are more ahead of the curve.

[BMMR61]

"I think this year we will see that by adding lap time we will start to have diminishing returns, I would say for the first time with this new regulation. You know, for two years we have seen pretty steep progress, especially in aerodynamic development. But now I predict that toward the end of the season it will become more difficult for designers to be able to maintain a very high pace of development."

Clearly that's confirming he isn't talking about THIS car but the inevitable trend in development and he later reiterates his earlier point about optimism of the 2023 upward momentum continuing into 2024 at a similar rate. Encouraging.

[mwillems]

The words from the MTC have been positive. If the time isn't there in Bahrain it won't be long before it is.

Hard not to trust this group, they've more than earnt it

[CjC]

Yea I think on the whole Stella’s comments are positive but feels the big laptime gains will become less and less throughout the year.

What I find strange is though regarding the diminishing returns…. We haven’t yet seen a grid full of the same cars or RB19s yet.
For instance McLaren with the overbite, Merc still have a pushrod front suspension. I think we are still far from the ‘perfect car’ for the formula if you get what I mean. Although I could regret this statement after Bahrain if Red Bull are on pole by half a second

[BMMR61]

Every season, "we" eagerly come to "the launch" day high on expectations and leave through another door deflated. It's not just the high expectations but, clearly, over the last few seasons most of the serious teams have gone out with something that isn't close to the new car. This can't be they didn't get finished in time (with testing a few days away) though to be honest the last two seasons McLaren were late, I'm confident this year there will be no repeat. For those teams with high aspirations of challenging at the front of the grid they are "keeping their powder dry" in not wanting to reveal too much or, in fact anything to their competitors. MWillems, you put it clearly about the development path being an orderly thing and not chasing the next detail onto the car for the next race. It was shown with last year's declared series of upgrades from Baku to Singapore, at which point serious development was deemed over and the new car development was given full throttle. Let's not get into a whole bunch of pessimism/wild optimism/speculation when three days of testing is only a week away - and even that will have a certain amount of something akin to "subterfuge" about it.

[mwillems]

Yea I think on the whole Stella’s comments are positive but feels the big laptime gains will become less and less throughout the year.

What I find strange is though regarding the diminishing returns…. We haven’t yet seen a grid full of the same cars or RB19s yet.
For instance McLaren with the overbite, Merc still have a pushrod front suspension. I think we are still far from the ‘perfect car’ for the formula if you get what I mean. Although I could regret this statement after Bahrain if Red Bull are on pole by half a second

I read it more back end development if you're in a title push or next years car.

But a big unknown is just how quickly those returns will diminish. Could still be plenty on the table next year, if you don't chose to dedicate next year to 26 like RB.

[BMMR61]

Confirming that even the Bahrain test won't fully reveal what McLaren have in store.....
Lando today “You’ll see what the car looks like. But you'll see in two weeks or something. So, be patient!”

[mwillems]

Yes I got the impression from Stella there would be parts coming to the first race.

[djos]

Why were some people disappointed to write that they saw the 2023 chassis today? Actually this car was the second fastest in the second half of 2023. I don't understand the discontent and pessimism. Did anyone expect to see a NASA rocket?

I saw roughly what I expected to see. The usual evolution of the chassis. As long as it goes fast. Red Bull didn't change much between 2022 and 2023 either, but consistently drove ahead of the planet.

Because some CFD eyes and can tell if the car is fast or slow from a render, lol

This is one the best and worst parts of the season in the forum, best because of the amount of pictures, details and discussions regarding the technical aspects of the car… Bad, because a lot will make judgements on the car even before a lap has been turned in testing, judgements based on testing lap times, etc… We equate “different” with “fast” most often than not and that’s a fallacy.

One would usually ask to wait until the end of testing, but the reality is that until Qualy in Bahrain, we won’t know how fast / slow the car is

That's right. Can't argue with that.

Likewise! I also don’t understand why folk think they are going to see a visually wild car, when this years stable rule set drives evolution, not revolution.

[taperoo2k]

If there were not for the confident statements from the team, I'd be very worried. Now I just think this has to be some form of sandbagging, I can't really understand it otherwise.

McLaren are managing expectations; they've learned not to overhype the car and then under deliver.
It's the same thing as most teams, they'll have the launch spec ready but might not have all the innovative stuff and
other items ready for the start of the season. There isn't much time between the end of the season and winter testing these days.

Either McLaren are fast and steady, or they've developed a rocket ship.

To me it looks like they are kind of overhyping it on one hand. Zak seems confident, even this morning talking about wins this season. Stella saying they are not hitting diminishing returns yet etc.
On the other hand they do a car launch like today? It's unheard of by McLaren. There always used to be a presentation for press in MTC with the car, drivers and leaders. This car launch is very strange to me. They are not really showing anything besides the car which majority considers basic/rough around the edges and very similar to MCL60 (unlike Merc, AM, Ferrari, we'll see RB but already before reveal, there is a lot of talk about RB20).

Personally, I expect more developed car in Bahrain test. Today's unusual McLaren car reveal leads me to believe there is something more.

I guess they might have hit on something they want to keep under wraps for as long as possible. Either we'll see the actual race car in the winter test or they'll roll it out as a surprise in FP1.