Just a few posts above from luscion.KimiRai wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 22:01Could you give the source/interview where he mentions diminishing returns?CjC wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 21:58Stella has also mentioned diminishing returns for the first time as well today.
He still sounds confident the same development curve can be maintained over the season but by the end of 2024 ‘it’ll be harder for the designers to find improvement’.
Newey and Horner have been saying that all winter so could they be almost a whole seasons worth of development ahead already??
One thing that makes me wonder is, we have his words during the winter mentioning that the development curve was still steepened and that no such diminishing returns had been found, I think everyone knows the excerpt I am mentioning. I don't understand why the change of idea in this short amount of time
The interview is posted a few comments backKimiRai wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 22:01Could you give the source/interview where he mentions diminishing returns?CjC wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 21:58Stella has also mentioned diminishing returns for the first time as well today.
He still sounds confident the same development curve can be maintained over the season but by the end of 2024 ‘it’ll be harder for the designers to find improvement’.
Newey and Horner have been saying that all winter so could they be almost a whole seasons worth of development ahead already??
One thing that makes me wonder is, we have his words during the winter mentioning that the development curve was still steepened and that no such diminishing returns had been found, I think everyone knows the excerpt I am mentioning. I don't understand why the change of idea in this short amount of time, did they just find out very recently?
I assume that in this instance (and I haven't found this yet for the record) he may be talking about the age old trend of diminishing trends. As a formula, or, specification, gets developed year on year, the incremental returns and possibilities decrease. I haven't seen evidence of anything counter to Stella's encouraging statement that the pace of McLaren's upward momentum looks to continue at a similar rate to last year, which we take as being what they see in simulation. We shall see.KimiRai wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 22:01Could you give the source/interview where he mentions diminishing returns?CjC wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 21:58Stella has also mentioned diminishing returns for the first time as well today.
He still sounds confident the same development curve can be maintained over the season but by the end of 2024 ‘it’ll be harder for the designers to find improvement’.
Newey and Horner have been saying that all winter so could they be almost a whole seasons worth of development ahead already??
One thing that makes me wonder is, we have his words during the winter mentioning that the development curve was still steepened and that no such diminishing returns had been found, I think everyone knows the excerpt I am mentioning. I don't understand why the change of idea in this short amount of time, did they just find out very recently?
Yes Im aware. It doesn't have to be a bad thing that he's said this really, it is in line with most of other team principals/technical director statements recently. It could also mean they are more ahead of the curve.BMMR61 wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 22:13I assume that in this instance (and I haven't found this yet for the record) he may be talking about the age old trend of diminishing trends. As a formula, or, specification, gets developed year on year, the incremental returns and possibilities decrease. I haven't seen evidence of anything counter to Stella's encouraging statement that the pace of McLaren's upward momentum looks to continue at a similar rate to last year, which we take as being what they see in simulation. We shall see.KimiRai wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 22:01Could you give the source/interview where he mentions diminishing returns?CjC wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 21:58Stella has also mentioned diminishing returns for the first time as well today.
He still sounds confident the same development curve can be maintained over the season but by the end of 2024 ‘it’ll be harder for the designers to find improvement’.
Newey and Horner have been saying that all winter so could they be almost a whole seasons worth of development ahead already??
One thing that makes me wonder is, we have his words during the winter mentioning that the development curve was still steepened and that no such diminishing returns had been found, I think everyone knows the excerpt I am mentioning. I don't understand why the change of idea in this short amount of time, did they just find out very recently?
I read it more back end development if you're in a title push or next years car.CjC wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 22:31Yea I think on the whole Stella’s comments are positive but feels the big laptime gains will become less and less throughout the year.
What I find strange is though regarding the diminishing returns…. We haven’t yet seen a grid full of the same cars or RB19s yet.
For instance McLaren with the overbite, Merc still have a pushrod front suspension. I think we are still far from the ‘perfect car’ for the formula if you get what I mean. Although I could regret this statement after Bahrain if Red Bull are on pole by half a second
Likewise! I also don’t understand why folk think they are going to see a visually wild car, when this years stable rule set drives evolution, not revolution.LionsHeart wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 18:42That's right. Can't argue with that.SmallSoldier wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 18:39Because some CFD eyes and can tell if the car is fast or slow from a render, lolLionsHeart wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 18:34Why were some people disappointed to write that they saw the 2023 chassis today? Actually this car was the second fastest in the second half of 2023. I don't understand the discontent and pessimism. Did anyone expect to see a NASA rocket?
I saw roughly what I expected to see. The usual evolution of the chassis. As long as it goes fast. Red Bull didn't change much between 2022 and 2023 either, but consistently drove ahead of the planet.
This is one the best and worst parts of the season in the forum, best because of the amount of pictures, details and discussions regarding the technical aspects of the car… Bad, because a lot will make judgements on the car even before a lap has been turned in testing, judgements based on testing lap times, etc… We equate “different” with “fast” most often than not and that’s a fallacy.
One would usually ask to wait until the end of testing, but the reality is that until Qualy in Bahrain, we won’t know how fast / slow the car is
I guess they might have hit on something they want to keep under wraps for as long as possible. Either we'll see the actual race car in the winter test or they'll roll it out as a surprise in FP1.Seerix wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 16:18To me it looks like they are kind of overhyping it on one hand. Zak seems confident, even this morning talking about wins this season. Stella saying they are not hitting diminishing returns yet etc.taperoo2k wrote: ↑14 Feb 2024, 16:04McLaren are managing expectations; they've learned not to overhype the car and then under deliver.
It's the same thing as most teams, they'll have the launch spec ready but might not have all the innovative stuff and
other items ready for the start of the season. There isn't much time between the end of the season and winter testing these days.
Either McLaren are fast and steady, or they've developed a rocket ship.
On the other hand they do a car launch like today? It's unheard of by McLaren. There always used to be a presentation for press in MTC with the car, drivers and leaders. This car launch is very strange to me. They are not really showing anything besides the car which majority considers basic/rough around the edges and very similar to MCL60 (unlike Merc, AM, Ferrari, we'll see RB but already before reveal, there is a lot of talk about RB20).
Personally, I expect more developed car in Bahrain test. Today's unusual McLaren car reveal leads me to believe there is something more.