Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

[i70q7m7ghw]

Could a mod please put this thread out of its misery

Could you either add to the discussion or go away? If you don't want to read it there are thousands of other threads to entertain you.

Someone help me exercise the demon inside Ray!!! Hold his arms!!

Seriously though, if thats what you believe then thats fine, you have every right to that. We are simply trying to show you the door, your the one that has to walk through it

[Ray]

Could a mod please put this thread out of its misery

Could you either add to the discussion or go away? If you don't want to read it there are thousands of other threads to entertain you.

Someone help me exercise the demon inside Ray!!! Hold his arms!!

Seriously though, if thats what you believe then thats fine, you have every right to that. We are simply trying to show you the door, your the one that has to walk through it

I get it. I'll leave for having a dissenting opinion and being rude. Sorry that I don't agree with the sheep, and that I'm not afraid to voice it. I will leave peacefully, I believe I've made myself clear multiple times. Enjoy the discussion!

(I'll still be reading the thread and you can't stop me. MUAHAHAHAHAHA! )

[andartop]

I'm very glad to read that Massa seems to be getting better and better:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77434

Fortunately, it appears the opinion of several journalists and/or professionals might have been a bit on the pessimistic side!

Let's hope the recovery continues at the same rate..

[jddh1]

I'm very glad to read that Massa seems to be getting better and better:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77434

Fortunately, it appears the opinion of several journalists and/or professionals might have been a bit on the pessimistic side!

Let's hope the recovery continues at the same rate..

Well, it looked damn scary initially.
But you know how the media is, trying to dramatize everything.

[tk421]

First of all, I hope Massa gets back in the cockpit, whenever that may be. Secondly, I agree that the media have had a bit of a field day with this story, stressing the negative aspects of the injury. However, he may fully recover as a regular guy but perhaps not as an F1 racing driver; this type of injury is pretty difficult to judge as others have rightly pointed out. I wish him the best, but I remain a bit cautious for now. Let's see where he is in 6 weeks.

[Professor]

I guess I am split between all the the opinions. Here's my take:

Part 1
1. Racing is dangerous

Part 2
1. Brawn knew there was a prob but did not know the exact nature and were hoping to get a Q3 transfer out of a car that was not on pace in Q2.
2. Their question was answered by the suspension failure and an unfortunate accident occurred that no one anticipated.

Part 3

1. Renault, in an effort to make their low fuel qualifying effort earn a podium, rushed their pitstop.
2. The car left the pit lane without the proper safety equipment employed.
3. Everyone at Renault knew that.
4. They did nothing to inform the driver or anyone else.
5. The faring and wheel came off which everyone anticipated.

Opinion - Brawn were overly optimistic that the car could do a Q3 transfer time, it failed and Massa was injured. Everyone was surprised by this unusual failure.

Renault was aware that they had screwed the stop and were expecting the wheel to fall off. It did, and no harm done except to screw FA's race.

The events are unrelated. And, as such, cannot be compared.

Penalties -

Brawn - None deserved, and none levied.

Renault - Something deserved, and something levied.

I do not think the Renault penalty is proper, but some penalty is justified. Not a race ban, but some other penalty, perhaps a forfeiture of points earned at Valencia. Fans and sponsors would get their day and Renault would get nothing.

Fair? You be the judge.

[dave34m]

Maybe a race ban is too harsh but just scoring no points at Valencia is way too slack. I'm not sure what the penalty has to be but it must be enough to make sure that the teams know that these things cannot happen. Money is no good either because points are way more important than money.

[WhiteBlue]

McLaren have been fined 100 million instead of a one season ban. So this amount is proportional to 17 races. So perhaps Renault should be fined 6 millions and disallowed all contructor points.

[Professor]

But defacto. a race ban at Valencia is nothing more than a points loss to Team Renault. But, it also penalizes their sponsors, and maybe it should, maybe not. It also punishes the promoters, vendors, and fans of the sport, all of whom have no responsibility.

So, a points ban is exactly the same to the team and drivers as an exclusion from the event.

But, an exclusion punishes those who support the sport with their own time, money, and effort.

That in itself cannot be good for the overall health of F1. There should be a Renault punishment but not a punishment that punishes everyone else with a stake in the event.

That's my take on it.

[andartop]

McLaren have been fined 100 million instead of a one season ban. So this amount is proportional to 17 races. So perhaps Renault should be fined 6 millions and disallowed all contructor points.

McLaren stole, cheated and then lied about it repeatedly over a lenghty period of time. The drivers were "spared" as part of a deal to provide evidence.
Renault did a silly mistake, and then failed over the next 2 minutes or so to take appropriate action in order to avoid a possible risk.
Brawn caused a very serious accident due to negligence.

Different crimes, so different punishments (if any) may be appropriate.

I just don't understand why Piquet (or should I say Grosjean?) should be punished as well?!!!
The second Renault driver is the only 100% innocent party in all this!

And I insist, as I have not yet received an answer to that, if the Renault incident was indeed so serious, and since it was clear for all to see that wheel was coming off, why did the Race Director not black-with-orange-circle flag Alonso during that lap? Because he had no idea he should have, as a similar incident had never been punished before? Because he didn't have the time to react? Because Alonso was leading the race before the incident??? And how come the Race Director did not receive an equally strict punishment (ie be relieved of duty) as he failed to secure the safty of other drivers, marshals and spectators by allowing such a dangerous car to complete a full lap?

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2009/7/9708.html

Interesting facts about F1 helmets. I think they need to look into increasing the 3 mm visor to 5 mm and making much more robust titanium swivel mechanisms. Potentially the rim of the cut out could be reinforced and a center bridge introduced. On top the overlap of visor and helmet may be increased.

[Tim.Wright]

I guess I am split between all the the opinions. Here's my take:

Part 1
1. Racing is dangerous

Part 2
1. Brawn knew there was a prob but did not know the exact nature and were hoping to get a Q3 transfer out of a car that was not on pace in Q2.
2. Their question was answered by the suspension failure and an unfortunate accident occurred that no one anticipated.

Part 3

1. Renault, in an effort to make their low fuel qualifying effort earn a podium, rushed their pitstop.
2. The car left the pit lane without the proper safety equipment employed.
3. Everyone at Renault knew that.
4. They did nothing to inform the driver or anyone else.
5. The faring and wheel came off which everyone anticipated.

Opinion - Brawn were overly optimistic that the car could do a Q3 transfer time, it failed and Massa was injured. Everyone was surprised by this unusual failure.

Renault was aware that they had screwed the stop and were expecting the wheel to fall off. It did, and no harm done except to screw FA's race.

The events are unrelated. And, as such, cannot be compared.

Penalties -

Brawn - None deserved, and none levied.

Renault - Something deserved, and something levied.

I do not think the Renault penalty is proper, but some penalty is justified. Not a race ban, but some other penalty, perhaps a forfeiture of points earned at Valencia. Fans and sponsors would get their day and Renault would get nothing.

Fair? You be the judge.

Probably the most sensible post on this whole thread.

[xpensive]

Have to disagree.

A wheel not properly mounted has happened before, when there is plenty of room for human error during an eight-second pit-stop. Remember when Nigel Mansell didn't make it out of the pits?
That idea that Renault should have knowingly kept the facts from their star-driver is not very likely either to my mind.

A broken spring mount sounds more like some form of engineering error, one way or the other, fatigue or whatever.

What about when Ferrari's failed light-based get-out system failed last year, was there a penalty for that, can't recall myself?

[i70q7m7ghw]

There's an interview as well:-
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/08/ ... ipe-massa/

[Scotracer]

That's a doozy of a gash.