2024 Alpine F1 Team

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EJ22B
EJ22B
17
Joined: 29 May 2022, 10:04

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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I don't think it's that much difficult to understand why is Alpine so much behind.

From what I have understood from reading several articles and interviews the A523 design reached its potential in reality. The updates they brought did not add the performance their tools predicted.

The team then decided to move into a different direction in terms of car concept. They then had some serious issues during the building of the A524 with crash tests causing them overshoot their weight target considerably.

Also, given the limit of their current tools it's impossible for them come up with a new concept with good performance. They first have to verify if everything is correlating and working as it should before they fully commit to producing the parts that add serious performance.

This is sort of similar to 2023 McLaren Baku update where they checked first if the concept even works or not.

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JordanMugen
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Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 13:36

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
01 Mar 2024, 02:04
Excellent! What is Alpine-Renault's WCC target for 2024? P7? :)
Will the A524 be a strong basis for development to take a strong P7 or P8 in the 2024 WCC? :)

factory_p wrote:
01 Mar 2024, 11:02
they sack the lead aero, the chief technical officer and/or the team principal.
I thought Pat Fry wasn't sacked, he was just frustrated with the lack of investment in facilities and thus lack of ambition to win? :?:

EJ22B wrote:
01 Mar 2024, 20:31
I don't think it's that much difficult to understand why is Alpine so much behind.

From what I have understood from reading several articles and interviews the A523 design reached its potential in reality. The updates they brought did not add the performance their tools predicted.
What went wrong with the plan to upgrade Enstone (& Viry-Châtillon) to World Championship winning capability starting in 2016?

Lack of investment in matching (or better still, exceeding) Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari (& Honda) facilities & capabilities from 2016-2022?

EJ22B
EJ22B
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Joined: 29 May 2022, 10:04

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
01 Mar 2024, 20:49

What went wrong with the plan to upgrade Enstone (& Viry-Châtillon) to World Championship winning capability starting in 2016?

Lack of investment in matching (or better still, exceeding) Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari (& Honda) facilities & capabilities from 2016-2022?
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-a ... /10508075/

The infrastructure updates are currently taking place and some of them like the driver in loop simulator should be online by the start of 2025.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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EJ22B wrote:
01 Mar 2024, 21:21

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-a ... /10508075/

The infrastructure updates are currently taking place and some of them like the driver in loop simulator should be online by the start of 2025.
But didn't Renault buy Enstone again in 2016? Why nearly 10 years to upgrade facilities? :?:

Especially when before the budget cap, Renault could have spent an unlimited budget on upgrading facilities.

I thought Renault had targeted their all-new 2022 power unit, budget cap and 2022 regulations as their opportunity to win championships? :?:

Now we hear that 2026 regulations and power unit are the target instead?! :wtf: That's quite some delays for a project started in 2016.

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Jambier
5
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 11:02
Location: France

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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And the engine since 2014… 10 years to still be the weakest.

Anyway now there is almost no management, nobody at Enstone, I don’t see any other future than a sell

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diffuser
236
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
01 Mar 2024, 21:25
EJ22B wrote:
01 Mar 2024, 21:21

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-a ... /10508075/

The infrastructure updates are currently taking place and some of them like the driver in loop simulator should be online by the start of 2025.
But didn't Renault buy Enstone again in 2016? Why nearly 10 years to upgrade facilities? :?:

Especially when before the budget cap, Renault could have spent an unlimited budget on upgrading facilities.

I thought Renault had targeted their all-new 2022 power unit, budget cap and 2022 regulations as their opportunity to win championships? :?:

Now we hear that 2026 regulations and power unit are the target instead?! :wtf: That's quite some delays for a project started in 2016.
https://racingnews365.com/ex-alpine-eng ... -to-rivals

“I look back at the first three years I was there, and we improved Enstone, dramatically, year-on-year, we built a better car," Fry explained in Abu Dhabi, as quoted by Motorsport.com.

“If you put the three cars next to each other, each one was a massive step. It’s a credit for everyone there, the various teams were collaborating a huge amount better.

I think everyone there should be proud of what we achieved over those three years.

“I guess I’d gone back there to go back to the place started [my] career and try and rebuild it. I think we did really well. From a distant fifth, we were a solid fourth.

“But I didn’t feel there was the enthusiasm or the drive to move forward beyond fourth.

“I decided at the start of March that I want to be pushing things forward, I don’t just want to sit there and not be able to do things. So for me, that was time to stop and move on.

“It’s one of those things, I think as a company, they weren’t almost set up to push hard enough, you can say you want to be first.

“But the difference between saying it and achieving it, is monumental, as we all know.”

Fry's departure coincided with that of Szafnauer - who was more cautious than top management over the timeline for success, with Szafnauer realising it would take considerably longer than management demanded.

“I’m not so sure that Otmar got a fair chance at fixing the place, because to some degree I think metaphorically, your hands are tied, I guess," Fry explained.

“But as I say, I think everyone there should be proud of what we achieved in those first three years.

“It’s always a shame walking away from things. But I think for me, I’d taken them as far as I could. And it was time for me to put my feet up and sit in my garden.”

Xyz22
Xyz22
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Joined: 16 Feb 2022, 20:05

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
01 Mar 2024, 22:11
JordanMugen wrote:
01 Mar 2024, 21:25
EJ22B wrote:
01 Mar 2024, 21:21

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-a ... /10508075/

The infrastructure updates are currently taking place and some of them like the driver in loop simulator should be online by the start of 2025.
But didn't Renault buy Enstone again in 2016? Why nearly 10 years to upgrade facilities? :?:

Especially when before the budget cap, Renault could have spent an unlimited budget on upgrading facilities.

I thought Renault had targeted their all-new 2022 power unit, budget cap and 2022 regulations as their opportunity to win championships? :?:

Now we hear that 2026 regulations and power unit are the target instead?! :wtf: That's quite some delays for a project started in 2016.
https://racingnews365.com/ex-alpine-eng ... -to-rivals

“I look back at the first three years I was there, and we improved Enstone, dramatically, year-on-year, we built a better car," Fry explained in Abu Dhabi, as quoted by Motorsport.com.

“If you put the three cars next to each other, each one was a massive step. It’s a credit for everyone there, the various teams were collaborating a huge amount better.

I think everyone there should be proud of what we achieved over those three years.

“I guess I’d gone back there to go back to the place started [my] career and try and rebuild it. I think we did really well. From a distant fifth, we were a solid fourth.

“But I didn’t feel there was the enthusiasm or the drive to move forward beyond fourth.

“I decided at the start of March that I want to be pushing things forward, I don’t just want to sit there and not be able to do things. So for me, that was time to stop and move on.

“It’s one of those things, I think as a company, they weren’t almost set up to push hard enough, you can say you want to be first.

“But the difference between saying it and achieving it, is monumental, as we all know.”

Fry's departure coincided with that of Szafnauer - who was more cautious than top management over the timeline for success, with Szafnauer realising it would take considerably longer than management demanded.

“I’m not so sure that Otmar got a fair chance at fixing the place, because to some degree I think metaphorically, your hands are tied, I guess," Fry explained.

“But as I say, I think everyone there should be proud of what we achieved in those first three years.

“It’s always a shame walking away from things. But I think for me, I’d taken them as far as I could. And it was time for me to put my feet up and sit in my garden.”


This makes a ton of sense.

K1Plus
K1Plus
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Joined: 05 Jul 2022, 18:15

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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In essence Pat saw that they are severely limited, and Williams has a better chance to grow.

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Otromundo
0
Joined: 26 Feb 2023, 00:29
Location: Spain

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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It seems that the bosses at Renault are not interested in F1.
It is difficult to understand what they do.
Their brand image is damaged, that is undeniable.
What they have been doing for several years has no logical explanation :shock:
Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

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diffuser
236
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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One of the problems with F1 is we still have a few teams that have no aspirations to win. Teams like Alpine, Visa and Haas say the right things but really don't have goals of winning. Their "reason d'être" is just to be, or to help a mother team be more efficient financially.

It's gotten better, the change in ownerships has pulled Williams and will pull Sauber/Audi off the pervibiale bottom feeder list.

Enstone
Enstone
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Joined: 30 Nov 2016, 14:20
Location: Malaga/Paris

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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Alpine has suffered a further blow to its early season woes as technical director Matt Harman and head of aerodynamics Dirk de Beer have resigned.

Harman and de Beer handed in their resignations a few weeks ago and are currently serving out the notice period on their contracts, with the duo set to leave the F1 team in April.
https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-alp ... signations

CaribouBread
CaribouBread
101
Joined: 29 Mar 2022, 08:37

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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Oh wow. .. this is dire.

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Jambier
5
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 11:02
Location: France

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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It is mesmerizing to see this atrocious show.

How is that possible? They have fired almost everybody or people are leaving by themselves.

Of course, drivers will try to run as soon as possible as well.

I don’t see any VP from Renault or Alpine dealing with the team, and I think the investors from last year that took 24% of the team will now push to have someone else buying it.

I’m so sad for this team that I come to hope that someone will buy it and put an end to this pain :/

PowerandtheGlory
PowerandtheGlory
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Joined: 27 Feb 2019, 10:52

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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Apparently it’s been reported that Aero chief and Tech lead are working their notices… rats leaving a sinking ship

https://www.formulanerds.com/news/more- ... -it-quits/
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

JPower
JPower
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Joined: 23 Feb 2021, 05:06

Re: 2024 Alpine F1 Team

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PowerandtheGlory wrote:
02 Mar 2024, 21:58
Apparently it’s been reported that Aero chief and Tech lead are working their notices… rats leaving a sinking ship

https://www.formulanerds.com/news/more- ... -it-quits/
They’re leaving because they headed the creation of a bad car.