Christian Horner under Investigation

[stonehenge]

There are many aspects to this coming out..

PA v Horner
Jos v Horner

But now another new aspect of MBS of the FIA privately canvassing for support for Horner, in stark contrast to FIA publicly launching an investigation into Susie from a non article.

This is a man who reputedly told Horner “don’t worry, I’m your only friend”.
This is also a man who was involved in AD21 decision making, the ridiculous farce with Lewis jewellery! And also the budget cap breakage.

I wonder if they’re will be anymore twist and turns.

Yeah, I think it's hard to understate what a disaster this has become for F1. The FIA pressuring (or at least asking) F1's star driver to back an embroiled team principal who's alleged to have had an inappropriate relationship with a subordinate employee... I don't even know where to begin on this. This has become bigger than just Red Bull, this is now a full-scale disaster for the sport that could have drastic consequences, from Horner being sacked, to Verstappen leaving, to Ben Sulayem being forced out...

This story is on the front pages of major European newspapers now. I have to admit, I didn't see it coming to this when we first heard news of the complaint against Horner. Just wow!

[Vanja #66]

Jos taking a dig at Horner is beyond rich... I was wondering when his particular toxic father persona is gonna resurface

At this point, these power plays within RB are completely unworthy and I hope Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari form a temporary PR alliance to maximise their damage and the rift within Red Bull. They've deserved it at this point.

[toraabe]

The messages mostly read to me like two consenting adults flirting and getting up to things (including physical) at work behind their partner's backs, which is VERY common.

I'm not defending him. But the woman is not innocent in this either.

To me the messages very much read in the woman not wanting to be in the position she is in by someone who holds her career in his hands. She said repeatedly no, the responses were cold and short and was responding in a way that was trying to stay on good terms without telling him to go **** off. She told no jokes or laughs back.

Exactly. Don't forget Geri in all this.....Wonder what she is going through these days...

[TFSA]

Exactly. Don't forget Geri in all this.....Wonder what she is going through these days...

Geri likely has WhatsApp herself, and likely knows whether the profile picture and name in the leaked conversations were ever used by her husband. Plus she will know her husbonds writing style. So she will know if the leaked messages are fake or authentic.

[Cs98]

To be honest if Jos is also getting involved seems to me that it is more that they dont like Horner getting all the credits.

Telegraaf is a news paper who would post day after day how great MV is and it seems there is jealousy going on when anyone else gets credits now.

https://archive.is/Mw5tj

Telegraaf is a very nationalistic news paper , we "dutch" should all love racing in Zandvoort although most people living there dont like it at all.

Credit? Nationalism? Load of rubbish. Max gets plenty of credit, not that he seems particularly interested in it. When people try to detract from him it's not because of the presence of Horner.

I think it's rather more simple. Jos (and presumably Max and many others in the team) now see Horner as a threat to the future of the team. A leader needs to have credibility with their employees and sponsors. If he doesn't, it will disrupt everything. How is Horner supposed to recruit new employees? You think big names in F1 will be happy to see his name calling on their phone? I can imagine plenty of employees in RB feel uncomfortable with the situation and might be considering their next move if this is not handled properly. Horner may have been able to maintain some air of credibility when the nature of the allegations were uncertain. But with the evidence out in public that's gone. Every person in the sport has seen it and they can make their own judgement on his actions, and you better believe a lot of them are going to have a problem with it.

[codetower]

If this does end up being Jos going to this length to get Horner out, would any other team want to invite the verstappen family into their home? If you are Toto, do you risk bringing him in, and having something not go their way? You’d have to bend to every single request they have, and have to always be watching your back if things don't go the way they like.

Verstappen is good, but hes not winning a title in the current Mercedes, or the current McLaren. If I’m another team, and I end up with the fastest car on the grid, I’d rather go with a Norris or a Leclerc, or even take a chance with Piastri at this point… if all this ends up being Jos’ doing.

[TFSA]

Remarkable contradiction to how FIA acted with the Suzie article.

No matter how damaging for F1 the Horner saga is, it's still an internal Red Bull issue. So it does not (legally) concern the FIA. The Suzie Wolff case did potentially concern the FIA. That's a big difference.

MBS knows that all he and the FIA can do here is public relations work to try and get the issue resolved. They have no recourse to interfere.

[maxxer]

Some people think these screenshots are real. But look at your own whatsapp , these are screenshots made from a very low resolution phone.
It is very easy to get 2 phones and start some whatsapp convo between them.

[Wouter]

https://www.motorsport-total.com/forme ... -24030308

Not sure about the reliability of the source tbch, but the source says Mintzlaff was ready to sack Horner in January so he could save face, but he refused and threatened to sue.

.
I saw someone commented on that German article. Very interesting. Translated:
.

Let's summarize:

- In January, Mintzlaff wants to fire Horner.

- Horner then calls in lawyers.

- Dismissal is cancelled.

- Mintzlaff is disappointed and leaks via Van Haren on February 5 that an investigation is underway.
Van Haren had heard this from him on February 2. Van Haren then said he gave Horner 2 days to respond to this, which he did not do.

- Meanwhile, van Haren has even more information (from Mintzlaff I think) and drops the second bomb:
February 16: " Team boss Christian Horner of Red Bull Racing accused of sexual misconduct, according to reports and documents."

- Results of an independent lawyer's investigation indicate that the charges are unfounded and Horner will therefore not be fired. [Mintlaff must have been very disappointed.]

- A day later, 149 F1-related people receive an email with app traffic between the accuser and Horner in the hope that Horner can still be fired or that he will resign himself. [This must have been ready in case Horner was allowed to stay]


IMO, only Mintzlaff can be behind this. The plaintiff has she herself stated through a family member that
she was not behind the e-mails and that she had no intimate relationship with Horner.

[PlatinumZealot]

A nice article from the "German" point of view:

https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... r-24030303

Great backstory on history and the dynamics at play.

The Austrio/Dutch/ German side of things are clearly not comfortable with Horner staying on, and neither is Ford....

As much as zi like the guy I don't see Horner surviving past April.

[west52keep64]

Really wonder how long it will be before the media get bored of it all.

It doesn't help that there isn't much else to talk about in F1 at the moment.

[west52keep64]

The messages mostly read to me like two consenting adults flirting and getting up to things (including physical) at work behind their partner's backs, which is VERY common.

I'm not defending him. But the woman is not innocent in this either.

Have you read all of them? There's a very clear turning point where she pushes back on his requests, and then it seems she was "punished" with changes to her job.

[Watto]

The messages mostly read to me like two consenting adults flirting and getting up to things (including physical) at work behind their partner's backs, which is VERY common.

I'm not defending him. But the woman is not innocent in this either.

Have you read all of them? There's a very clear turning point where she pushes back on his requests, and then it seems she was "punished" with changes to her job.

Yep agree there I think Horner has to go. Perhaps I wonder though on this note though if the relatioinship was far more long term and the leak we are seeing is only the tail end of it . Its not making Horner right, and I think it still means Horner has to go but if it was a long term thing when things for what ever reason started to sour and we've been feed a very selective side to it. With Jos's recent comments can't help but wonder if its very very selective

A nice article from the "German" point of view:

https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... r-24030303

Great backstory on history and the dynamics at play.

The Austrio/Dutch/ German side of things are clearly not comfortable with Horner staying on, and neither is Ford....

As much as zi like the guy I don't see Horner surviving past April.

Yep I think once they have enough grounds they'll send him on his way. Maybe even just pay him out to avoid as much as they can.

https://www.motorsport-total.com/forme ... -24030308

Not sure about the reliability of the source tbch, but the source says Mintzlaff was ready to sack Horner in January so he could save face, but he refused and threatened to sue.

.
I saw someone commented on that German article. Very interesting. Translated:
.

Let's summarize:

- In January, Mintzlaff wants to fire Horner.

- Horner then calls in lawyers.

- Dismissal is cancelled.

- Mintzlaff is disappointed and leaks via Van Haren on February 5 that an investigation is underway.
Van Haren had heard this from him on February 2. Van Haren then said he gave Horner 2 days to respond to this, which he did not do.

- Meanwhile, van Haren has even more information (from Mintzlaff I think) and drops the second bomb:
February 16: " Team boss Christian Horner of Red Bull Racing accused of sexual misconduct, according to reports and documents."

- Results of an independent lawyer's investigation indicate that the charges are unfounded and Horner will therefore not be fired. [Mintlaff must have been very disappointed.]

- A day later, 149 F1-related people receive an email with app traffic between the accuser and Horner in the hope that Horner can still be fired or that he will resign himself. [This must have been ready in case Horner was allowed to stay]


IMO, only Mintzlaff can be behind this. The plaintiff has she herself stated through a family member that
she was not behind the e-mails and that she had no intimate relationship with Horner.

Didn't that family member also say they had not really talked to her about it? Raises a few concerns about just how much detail they were across IMO, not saying theymay not have been right. Just raises some red flags

[Watto]

A nice article from the "German" point of view:

https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... r-24030303

Great backstory on history and the dynamics at play.

The Austrio/Dutch/ German side of things are clearly not comfortable with Horner staying on, and neither is Ford....

As much as zi like the guy I don't see Horner surviving past April.

Silly me, though it was the same article as a page pack. This one goes into a bit more detail. And completely agree I don't see Horner surviving think as soon as they have legal grounds or maybe can swap the Thai owner to tehir side Horner is out.

[f1jcw]

That face of Geri’s on that link

This is new

On 17 pages, the Horner affair is detailed in detail and, among other things, the name of the employee who made the allegations against Horner is mentioned for the first time. It is told how the woman collapsed on the sidelines of a racing weekend and, crying, told colleagues for the first time about her boss's transgressive behavior.