Christian Horner under Investigation

[CHT]

I don't suppose people from F1technical are more familiar with the case, the accuser and the accused than the over 600 employees working in RBR.

Do you think she spread it around the office? Discussed over the morning teabreak "Oh Beckie, Horney Horner was asking for pics again, he's such a tease"?

If she can give those screenshots to someone to leak, then I suppose there is nothing that stopped her from sharing things with more than one Beckie. Assuming the screenshots are real as people want to believe they are.

There are over 800 employees at Oracle Red Bull and nobody is talking. Perhaps CH is the Big Brother in the George Orwell novel 1984, and everyone within the team is fearful of talking.

My guess is the worst is already over for CH, and the 80 years old Austrian will have very little influence on the team going forward.

[CHT]

A lot of the time the abuser only either treats a select few that way so it’s hards to get a leak or have the power to stop people talking through fear business people in very public positions running ponsi schemes and the like for years without being touched … until one day it catches up with them, it’s a far too simple point in its own

I don't suppose people from F1technical are more familiar with the case, the accuser and the accused than the over 600 employees working in RBR.

They are. And I think it’s around 1500 .

But my point is he may have, if true, only abused just a few people in probably the thousands employed over the times he’s been at RBR. Just because say 2990 of the 3000 people employed over time never experienced it doesn’t mean a small group didn’t. Probably suggests it’s not wide spread. But not that he’s not capable if it without more info one way or the other

Yeah, maybe you are Toto

[dialtone]

1800 posts ago I wrote:

After all that has happened so far, the chances things will go back to normal, regardless of anything, are slim.

I had no idea. Horner is lining up his prisoners and readying the guillotine.

[Watto]

Has Horner actually done anything, apart from get caught? The big question is why the complaint got made, isn't it? When it did, after apparently years.

But anyway yes Newey is key, as long as they have him they don't need Max, especially in this gang with Jos and Helmut.

The leaked text messages covered March 2023 through to January this year. The complaint was made because it looks like Horner was continuing to sexually harass the lady.

Horner is the CEO and team principal of the Red Bull F1 team. Suspending the complainant and launching the investigation into Marko will be his choice.

Marko isn’t a RBR employee, he’s part of Red Bull GmbH

https://www.skysports.com/amp/f1/news/1 ... rs-staying

Marko, who is employed as a motorsport advisor by Austrian parent company Red Bull GmbH rather than the F1 team directly, was a close confidant of Dietrich Mateschitz,

But if the Thai owner pulls rank on him well probably the same thing overall ; but he’s out of reach of Horner.

[mendis]

Has Horner actually done anything, apart from get caught? The big question is why the complaint got made, isn't it? When it did, after apparently years.

But anyway yes Newey is key, as long as they have him they don't need Max, especially in this gang with Jos and Helmut.

The leaked text messages covered March 2023 through to January this year. The complaint was made because it looks like Horner was continuing to sexually harass the lady.

Horner is the CEO and team principal of the Red Bull F1 team. Suspending the complainant and launching the investigation into Marko will be his choice.

Marko isn’t a RBR employee, he’s part of Red Bull GmbH

https://www.skysports.com/amp/f1/news/1 ... rs-staying

Marko, who is employed as a motorsport advisor by Austrian parent company Red Bull GmbH rather than the F1 team directly, was a close confidant of Dietrich Mateschitz,

But if the Thai owner pulls rank on him well probably the same thing overall ; but he’s out of reach of Horner.

It's a basic fact the Horner detractors miss while trying to blame Horner for Marko being in soup.

[myurr]

It's a basic fact the Horner detractors miss while trying to blame Horner for Marko being in soup.

Perhaps you should inform Jos that it can't be Horner pulling the team apart because he doesn't have any influence over Marko via the Thais. You know, those Thais that are backing him so heavily purportedly against the wishes of the people now being investigated and pushed out.

[myurr]

Do you think she spread it around the office? Discussed over the morning teabreak "Oh Beckie, Horney Horner was asking for pics again, he's such a tease"?

There's a screenshot showing she shared it with at least one other person at the time Horner was sending messages. She'd be able to verify the authenticity and timing. You can guarantee that Horner is being gossiped about around the office now. Give it time and more info will leak.

[mendis]

It's a basic fact the Horner detractors miss while trying to blame Horner for Marko being in soup.

Perhaps you should inform Jos that it can't be Horner pulling the team apart because he doesn't have any influence over Marko via the Thais. You know, those Thais that are backing him so heavily purportedly against the wishes of the people now being investigated and pushed out.

I am not very good at fiction. Neither creating, not believing. This fiction of Horner having control over Marko via Thais is beyond comprehension for me as there is no official statement from Thais that they give their backing to Horner and dance to his tunes. I don't even have a contact number of Jos to tell him this either.

Just wanted to add. Red Bull GmbH initiated the investigation against Horner. Good! They cleared him. Bad!!!
Red Bull GmbH initiated investigation against Marko. Bad!!!

Did you ever wonder, if Thais have such a backing to Horner, why did they even allow an Investigation of Horner in the first place? Think about it! You claim it's the board that constituted the investigation process and obviously that board has Thais!

[Luscion]

Looks like Horner doesnt think he needs Max, Ford or Newey for Red Bull to be successful - https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... an-horner/

It is unclear whether Horner has understood the message. When asked, Marko said that the balls are flying back and forth at the moment and that we have to expect new news every hour, but there are also voices in the team who claim that Horner is not looking to the left or right on his ego trip. "He seriously believes that he can win without Verstappen, Newey and Ford because he thinks he is the architect of success."

[mendis]

Looks like Horner doesnt think he needs Max, Ford or Newey for Red Bull to be successful - https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... an-horner/

It is unclear whether Horner has understood the message. When asked, Marko said that the balls are flying back and forth at the moment and that we have to expect new news every hour, but there are also voices in the team who claim that Horner is not looking to the left or right on his ego trip. "He seriously believes that he can win without Verstappen, Newey and Ford because he thinks he is the architect of success."

Are we surprised to hear this? I was hoping to hear far more brain dead comments from Horner about all these people, supposedly from "sources/voices" in the team .

The media wants to cook this as hard as it can to generate as high ad revenue as it can from click bait news.

That article says, Max has a clause that he can leave if management structure changes significantly at Red Bull. It doesn't mention if it's the Red Bull GmbH or Red Bull Racing management structure. Marko is part of Red Bull GmbH and if I understand correctly, Max is contracted to Red Bull Racing. I hope the contract has clear definition for what "Significantly" mean, otherwise Horner's PA leaving can be termed as "Significant" and contract can be broken. Just saying.

Apparently his contract gives him the opportunity to leave the team if the management structure at Red Bull changes significantly.

[Watto]

It's a basic fact the Horner detractors miss while trying to blame Horner for Marko being in soup.

Perhaps you should inform Jos that it can't be Horner pulling the team apart because he doesn't have any influence over Marko via the Thais. You know, those Thais that are backing him so heavily purportedly against the wishes of the people now being investigated and pushed out.

To be fair it’s why I say I don’t see a person in this thread that doesn’t have some bias.

I think any that followed RB and Marko over the years knows Marko has just about always been Mateschitz right hand man as Red Bulls ‘Motorsport advisor’ so it’s a pretty fundamental mistake to make that he’s under Horners employee. If Horner had a choice he would’ve been removed last year (I think) when they had their little falling out over control of the team which Horner won.


Like wise i don’t think it’s much of a reach to argue it’d RBs Thai owner that is very likely to have had some influence in this.

Probably the question I ask is he doing it in retaliation or does he have grounds we aren’t aware of to do it, if it’s the former I think Red Bull are in an awful lot of trouble, if the latter well you probably need to know more.

The article some pages back seemed to indicate for some time Horner began to have direct influence with D Mateschitz, taking away some of his control that it does not seem Marko was too happy about. Seems he still had most control under him but slowly began to trust/deal with Horner more directly.

But clearly an awful lot going on theee

[mendis]

Another "report". Don't know how true it is. As usual, I would like to hear an official statement from Red Bull.

https://formu1a.uno/en/red-bull-power-s ... e-unknown/

Austrian News outlet ORF says it is believed that Helmut Marko leaked the WhatsApp chats between Christian Horner and the female employee of Red Bull.

Helmut Marko’s suspension is on the cards, and could happen within the coming days.

Marko will meet with Oliver Mintzlaff tomorrow to discuss his future.

Apologies if I’ve missed the link, but Joe Saward’s written an interesting piece on the whole affair: https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2024/03 ... y-weekend/

Worth reading the comments, too.

Proper piece from Joe.
This part is naieve though :

The distribution list included a number of very confidential email addresses and so had to have been created by someone who is very well-connected in the F1 business.

On the basis of that report, if one has to believe, one can say Joe wasn't really being naive. Isn't it.

If this is true (I am hesitant), then it's a criminal offence to break company confidentiality and leak the sensitive information. Not sure if he had the consent of the woman while leaking this.

I wonder if Max knew about this all along, as he and Jos are really close to Marko. If they did then they become liable for failing to report and hence being participant in a criminal conspiracy of breaching the company confidentiality and causing mental distress to both Horner and woman and loss of reputation.

If I am Horner, I would ensure that Marko would be behind the bars, if Red Bull GmbH investigation of Marko finds material evidence to term him guilty. Does Toto still want to hire Marko?

I hope this is not true.

[chrisc90]

Someone leaked it without a question, I said over on autosport that there wasnt many people who could realistically be responsible for a leak: Link here

Red Bull are truly right to be, or looking to be suspending staff that they believe could be responsible whilst its investigated. (obviously Horner would be a bit silly to leak his own messages so probably why he's not suspended).

I think IF (BIG IF) it was Marko that leaked the messages, then there becomes a point where enough is enough. He's managed to stay by the skin of his teeth on previous cases. Maybe its a cover up from Jos and Max to put pressure on RB to have Marko stay by claiming that he's part of the team, and thus the media comments from Max are almost 'to his defence' in not wanting RB HQ to sack him.

I'm not even sure I wholly agree with Max in his media interview the other day about who built the team (where he excluded Christian from the comments). I'm sure Christian would have done equally as much, if not more than Marko in getting the team to the success they are at today. And even then it filters down to the staff you have working for you etc.

Max needs to be clever with his decisions, Marko is 80year old now and certainly no 'spring chicken' anymore and got to question how much longer he has being able to sustain workloads, travelling etc. Marko was certainly responsible for bringing Max into F1, and a very right decision that was at the time.

Certainly a tough call, i'm more than certain that Max can survive in F1 quite easily without the help of Marko being there in the paddock too. Even if Max reported back to Marko and Christian about the car, i'm sure Christian is more than capable of pulling any strings for ideas/concerns Max has about the car with the rest of the team. Infact, Max is probably better off sitting down with Newey and Wache than Christian or Marko about any development or concerns.

For one thing, Max isnt going to walk out of F1 in the next few months IF Marko is suspended or sacked, certainly not when he's by far the best driver on the grid, driving for one of the most slick teams on the grid in many many years when they are both at their peaks.

I certainly don't think Max would work alongside Toto well. Merc and their PR is just not in-line with how RB's and Max work. (hate to bring it up but look how much Russell changed when he was brought into Mercedes and how his interviews and character changed). That wouldn't work with Max in the slightest.

[Cs98]

Someone leaked it without a question, I said over on autosport that there wasnt many people who could realistically be responsible for a leak: Link here

Red Bull are truly right to be, or looking to be suspending staff that they believe could be responsible whilst its investigated. (obviously Horner would be a bit silly to leak his own messages so probably why he's not suspended).

I think IF (BIG IF) it was Marko that leaked the messages, then there becomes a point where enough is enough. He's managed to stay by the skin of his teeth on previous cases. Maybe its a cover up from Jos and Max to put pressure on RB to have Marko stay by claiming that he's part of the team, and thus the media comments from Max are almost 'to his defence' in not wanting RB HQ to sack him.

I'm not even sure I wholly agree with Max in his media interview the other day about who built the team (where he excluded Christian from the comments). I'm sure Christian would have done equally as much, if not more than Marko in getting the team to the success they are at today. And even then it filters down to the staff you have working for you etc.

Max needs to be clever with his decisions, Marko is 80year old now and certainly no 'spring chicken' anymore and got to question how much longer he has being able to sustain workloads, travelling etc. Marko was certainly responsible for bringing Max into F1, and a very right decision that was at the time.

Certainly a tough call, i'm more than certain that Max can survive in F1 quite easily without the help of Marko being there in the paddock too. Even if Max reported back to Marko and Christian about the car, i'm sure Christian is more than capable of pulling any strings for ideas/concerns Max has about the car with the rest of the team. Infact, Max is probably better off sitting down with Newey and Wache than Christian or Marko about any development or concerns.

For one thing, Max isnt going to walk out of F1 in the next few months IF Marko is suspended or sacked, certainly not when he's by far the best driver on the grid, driving for one of the most slick teams on the grid in many many years when they are both at their peaks.

I certainly don't think Max would work alongside Toto well. Merc and their PR is just not in-line with how RB's and Max work. (hate to bring it up but look how much Russell changed when he was brought into Mercedes and how his interviews and character changed). That wouldn't work with Max in the slightest.

That depends. If Marko was the leaker and he firmly believes the investigation was not properly conducted (or not properly taken into consideration when the case was dismissed) there's an ethical case to be made for leaking. I certainly would not hold the person who "broke the rules" by leaking a cover up in the same regard as the person who broke the rules/law and then orchestrated the covering up of that transgression. Whistleblowing is an important thing, albeit flawed. Btw, I believe Marko is the one who appointed Horner. And again, this is a case of the dominoes falling. Marko goes, Max goes, Newey is rumoured to side with them. Who else goes? Those three are the biggest names in the company (with Horner), the chances that they are the only ones who have a problem with Horner is low. There could be a big exodus. As for Max I could certainly see him driving for Merc if Marko goes.

[mendis]

Someone leaked it without a question, I said over on autosport that there wasnt many people who could realistically be responsible for a leak: Link here

Red Bull are truly right to be, or looking to be suspending staff that they believe could be responsible whilst its investigated. (obviously Horner would be a bit silly to leak his own messages so probably why he's not suspended).

I think IF (BIG IF) it was Marko that leaked the messages, then there becomes a point where enough is enough. He's managed to stay by the skin of his teeth on previous cases. Maybe its a cover up from Jos and Max to put pressure on RB to have Marko stay by claiming that he's part of the team, and thus the media comments from Max are almost 'to his defence' in not wanting RB HQ to sack him.

I'm not even sure I wholly agree with Max in his media interview the other day about who built the team (where he excluded Christian from the comments). I'm sure Christian would have done equally as much, if not more than Marko in getting the team to the success they are at today. And even then it filters down to the staff you have working for you etc.

Max needs to be clever with his decisions, Marko is 80year old now and certainly no 'spring chicken' anymore and got to question how much longer he has being able to sustain workloads, travelling etc. Marko was certainly responsible for bringing Max into F1, and a very right decision that was at the time.

Certainly a tough call, i'm more than certain that Max can survive in F1 quite easily without the help of Marko being there in the paddock too. Even if Max reported back to Marko and Christian about the car, i'm sure Christian is more than capable of pulling any strings for ideas/concerns Max has about the car with the rest of the team. Infact, Max is probably better off sitting down with Newey and Wache than Christian or Marko about any development or concerns.

For one thing, Max isnt going to walk out of F1 in the next few months IF Marko is suspended or sacked, certainly not when he's by far the best driver on the grid, driving for one of the most slick teams on the grid in many many years when they are both at their peaks.

I certainly don't think Max would work alongside Toto well. Merc and their PR is just not in-line with how RB's and Max work. (hate to bring it up but look how much Russell changed when he was brought into Mercedes and how his interviews and character changed). That wouldn't work with Max in the slightest.

Hopefully Max has some sense and doesn't get dragged in this filth. If he didn't know the background then, he probably would know it now if Red Bull suspends Marko. In such a scenario, does Max want to stand with a criminal and sabotage his own career? I hope not. If he doesn't like this whole situation and wants to leave without standing with anyone particularly, it's entirely upto him. But leaving by showing solidarity for someone who went against his own organisation would be damning for his reputation.