2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[peewon]

If I understand what you're trying to say is....whatever the ride height, you'd like the same DF over the whole range of the suspension travel?

No, I meant that even if AMR 24 is quicker by a couple of tenths in low fuel, quali trim, I'd rather have the RB19 which is faster on race pace by being better on tyres and is outright faster on heavier fuel loads.

To put it in other words, if AMR24 and RB 19 were to somehow compete over an entire championship season, I'd pick the RB19 to win.

Kind of a weird comparison. The Rb19 in 2023 is a known quantity but the AMR24's trajectory is unknown. AMR need to have this heavy on fuel pace issue thing figured out soon.

Weird comparison? Sure. But we're comparing them at similar points of their evolution. Im sure the RB19 also got better till they stopped developing it. The goal was to determine the correlation between floor complexity and performance level. I dont think AMR24 over RB19 is a definitive data point in that argument.

[-wkst-]

Not sure what you're talking about.

I don't know who said they have tyre degradation problems,but is not true is just all rumors! If they would have worse tyre degradation than Mercedes, then Alonso couldn't keep behind and be fast as Russell on the 43 lap old tyres. What is fact, that Alonso and Stroll couldn't bring heat in the tyres with heavy car.They was complaining about the tyres ice cold, even they pushing like crazy. Aston slow with heavy car,because tyre temperature and not because they killing it. As soon as the car get lighter and faster they put more stess in the tyres because can drive more aggressive in the corners so get warmer easier.

I never heard Alonso complain about cold tires. Also Jeddah is a low deg track. So it is no wonder they didn't have deg issues.

Yeah, just STR had this unusual problem in Jeddah.

But as ALO explained pre-race, the exact opposite is the case (for him):
https://www.grandprix.com/news/alonso-r ... aston.html

Jeddah 2nd stint of ALO was ok because of the low-deg nature of the circuit, he was still slower than every other top team driver (in free air conditions). And also the claim that ALO's last stint in Bahrain was good is a bit exaggerated. He simply had 6-10 laps newer tyres than Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren (which counts a lot at this high deg circuit).

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

I don't know who said they have tyre degradation problems,but is not true is just all rumors! If they would have worse tyre degradation than Mercedes, then Alonso couldn't keep behind and be fast as Russell on the 43 lap old tyres. What is fact, that Alonso and Stroll couldn't bring heat in the tyres with heavy car.They was complaining about the tyres ice cold, even they pushing like crazy. Aston slow with heavy car,because tyre temperature and not because they killing it. As soon as the car get lighter and faster they put more stess in the tyres because can drive more aggressive in the corners so get warmer easier.

I never heard Alonso complain about cold tires. Also Jeddah is a low deg track. So it is no wonder they didn't have deg issues.

Yeah, just STR had this unusual problem in Jeddah.

But as ALO explained pre-race, the exact opposite is the case (for him):
https://www.grandprix.com/news/alonso-r ... aston.html

Jeddah 2nd stint of ALO was ok because of the low-deg nature of the circuit, he was still slower than every other top team driver (in free air conditions). And also the claim that ALO's last stint in Bahrain was good is a bit exaggerated. He simply had 6-10 laps newer tyres than Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren (which counts a lot at this high deg circuit).

Leave Bahrain because is was messy and everybody on different tactics or sandbagging for safety car. Low deg track or not ,is doesn't really matter if you have a degradation issue compare to other. I mean the team with tyre deg issue will be in worse situation compared to those who don't have this problem. Aston simply couldn't heat up the tyres with heavy car. In the link below
You can see that till lap 15 Alonso really slow. After lap 15 till lap 25 just getting better and better. After lap 25 came back the true performance and match with the front runners. If is would be tyre degradation then is would be impossible.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https% ... bf735bc9fc

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

I never heard Alonso complain about cold tires. Also Jeddah is a low deg track. So it is no wonder they didn't have deg issues.

Yeah, just STR had this unusual problem in Jeddah.

But as ALO explained pre-race, the exact opposite is the case (for him):
https://www.grandprix.com/news/alonso-r ... aston.html

Jeddah 2nd stint of ALO was ok because of the low-deg nature of the circuit, he was still slower than every other top team driver (in free air conditions). And also the claim that ALO's last stint in Bahrain was good is a bit exaggerated. He simply had 6-10 laps newer tyres than Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren (which counts a lot at this high deg circuit).

Leave Bahrain because is was messy and everybody on different tactics or sandbagging for safety car. Low deg track or not ,is doesn't really matter if you have a degradation issue compare to other. I mean the team with tyre deg issue will be in worse situation compared to those who don't have this problem. Aston simply couldn't heat up the tyres with heavy car. In the link below
You can see that till lap 15 Alonso really slow. After lap 15 till lap 25 just getting better and better. After lap 25 came back the true performance and match with the front runners. If is would be tyre degradation then is would be impossible on the same tyre or without tyre change.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https% ... bf735bc9fc

[diffuser]

I get that they have a performance problem on heavy fuel but there is no evidence, that I've seen, that it's cause they can't get the tires up into the operating window. I mean outside the normal half lap it takes to get a harder compound up to speed.

[-wkst-]

@OnEcRiTiCaL

Mate, you just ignore the things that speak against your theory with weird arguments.

[xReVo]

I get that they have a performance problem on heavy fuel but there is no evidence, that I've seen, that it's cause they can't get the tires up into the operating window. I mean outside the normal half lap it takes to get a harder compound up to speed.

The problem is the front suspension, they have also mentioned several times that they have problems there.

[diffuser]

I get that they have a performance problem on heavy fuel but there is no evidence, that I've seen, that it's cause they can't get the tires up into the operating window. I mean outside the normal half lap it takes to get a harder compound up to speed.

The problem is the front suspension, they have also mentioned several times that they have problems there.

You mean under steer ? All I've heard is they have less than ideal ride height with heavy fuel. Which is rather vague in itself. It could be a suspension problem or that their down force is too peaky. Meaning they have too large of a down-force fluctuation in small changes in the ride height. Instead of having the same DF over a 2 cm suspension travel, it's dropping off. while when the car it is lighter, it easier for the car to maintain less than a 1 cm delta(for example).

[-wkst-]

I get that they have a performance problem on heavy fuel but there is no evidence, that I've seen, that it's cause they can't get the tires up into the operating window. I mean outside the normal half lap it takes to get a harder compound up to speed.

The problem is the front suspension, they have also mentioned several times that they have problems there.

Then please provide us at least one link, where problems with the front suspension are mentioned.

As far as I remember, Fallows made only some hints to the press (on Sunday before the launch) that AMR is not entirely happy with the REAR suspension.

[nowaysthatsreal]

Race pace could be slower due to multiple factors. They have better drs now and in race drs can be used rarely if you are close to car in front. Heavy fuel pace is slower as the car becomes lighter pace keeps improving. Tyre deg is not as good as last year specially with tank full, but it’s not as bad as sf23

[diffuser]

Race pace could be slower due to multiple factors. They have better drs now and in race drs can be used rarely if you are close to car in front. Heavy fuel pace is slower as the car becomes lighter pace keeps improving. Tyre deg is not as good as last year specially with tank full, but it’s not as bad as sf23

I agree it could be several reasons. I'm just going with what they said which, arguably, could be them just throwing us a bone or diluted/vague so much it means nothing. I don't think it's a DRS issue, Alonso's pace vs Russel improved in Jeddah, he never got to use the DRS over that whole stint on hards. Well, at least Alonso and Krack said that. if you look at the data, Russel's and Alonso's lap times varied a little from lap to lap but Russel was never able to get into Alonso's DRS zone. Alonso was always able to do enough to keep him behind. So there is always the possibility that Alonso had pace in hand that he didn't use. What we know for certain is he didn't have enough pace to pass the cars ahead of him. He drops to about 3 seconds behind Piastri between laps 11 and 15 but maintains that gap all the way to the end of the race. Even after Hamilton and Norris pit, Piastri is unable to pull away from Alonso.

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

@OnEcRiTiCaL

Mate, you just ignore the things that speak against your theory with weird arguments.

What you mean?

[-wkst-]

@OnEcRiTiCaL

Mate, you just ignore the things that speak against your theory with weird arguments.

What you mean?

That you simply ignore facts. The high deg of AMR in Bahrain is a fact (team was open to talk about it). It is also a fact that ALO had a tyre life advantage in the last stint in Bahrain, where he looked relatively better. It is another fact that they profited a lot from the low-deg characteristic in Jeddah.

On the other side there is no proof that ALO had any issues in warming up the tyres in the 2 races, or STR in Bahrain. Also the team radios of the two races indicates nothing like that.

The team radio of ALO in Jeddah rather indicates that he saved his tyres for the end, when HAM and NOR pitted. But even then someone like LEC showed what's really possible in the last lap at such a low-deg circuit.


We all don't know what causes the worse pace in the race, but it's highly unlikely a lack of tyre tempatures...

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

@OnEcRiTiCaL

Mate, you just ignore the things that speak against your theory with weird arguments.

What you mean?

That you simply ignore facts. The high deg of AMR in Bahrain is a fact (team was open to talk about it). It is also a fact that ALO had a tyre life advantage in the last stint in Bahrain, where he looked relatively better. It is another fact that they profited a lot from the low-deg characteristic in Jeddah.

On the other side there is no proof that ALO had any issues in warming up the tyres in the 2 races, or STR in Bahrain. Also the team radios of the two races indicates nothing like that.

The team radio of ALO in Jeddah rather indicates that he saved his tyres for the end, when HAM and NOR pitted. But even then someone like LEC showed what's really possible in the last lap at such a low-deg circuit.


We all don't know what causes the worse pace in the race, but it's highly unlikely a lack of tyre tempatures...

You all don't know what causes the bad pace ,then why arguing with me while I saying the truth or at leastwhat we know!? In Jeddah Alonso was playing with the brake balance just to bring some temperature in the rear tyres. He also talked with his engineer, you can listen the radio talks,but this post also proves my right...
https://x.com/AstonMartin_FI/status/176 ... 14821?s=20
Stroll: https://www.racefans.net/2024/03/14/my- ... -the-wall/

[-wkst-]

Well, again, the ALO team radio is out of context. It was in the lap the SC came in to be prepared for the restart. I listened to the whole team radio, no complaints during the race for tyre temps.

It's like the (non) race sim ALO did on the last day of testing. After it you were so convinced that they are as fast as Ferrari and faster than Mercedes and McLaren. Comments that we don't know the fuel load (as he boxed between the stints) or engine mode were unheard by you. In the end we know the outcoming...