2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Cs98
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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dialtone wrote:
07 Apr 2024, 10:51
Cs98 wrote:
dialtone wrote:
07 Apr 2024, 10:02

I’m not using the SF-23. This track suits RBR particularly well and MCL was stronger here as Ferrari hasn’t had strong fast corner performance so far this season.

This is simply the weakest track so far.
Doesn't mean they are weak here, they were clearly second fastest today and the results reflect that.
That’s a totally different argument. This track had the mix of corners that Ferrari drivers themselves said wasn’t gonna suit the car. That they got 2nd best anyway just means the car is that much better than those behind at the moment.
Indeed, and that's my point. The performance, as in execution of the race weekend, is not that impressive. The improvement of the car is impressive, but we already knew that.

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aleks_ader
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Dammn Italians really need French guy to sort them out. This car is really really raceable.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

Sphere3758
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I sense some good things coming from Charles in the coming races. Ferrari have appeared a bit further away from Redbull than reality because
1) They have not optimized qualifying
2) Max has pretty much been driving in free air all the time. We saw what a big difference it did today. As soon as Leclerc got some free air on his medium stint, his lap times were quite incredible given the tyre age. It makes a massive difference for the first stint, where Redbull has managed to pull away so far

All we need is a race where he is on the front row and Ferrari dont mess up his brakes :)

r85
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Sphere3758 wrote:
07 Apr 2024, 11:36
I sense some good things coming from Charles in the coming races. Ferrari have appeared a bit further away from Redbull than reality because
1) They have not optimized qualifying
2) Max has pretty much been driving in free air all the time. We saw what a big difference it did today. As soon as Leclerc got some free air on his medium stint, his lap times were quite incredible given the tyre age. It makes a massive difference for the first stint, where Redbull has managed to pull away so far

All we need is a race where he is on the front row and Ferrari dont mess up his brakes :)
Qualifying is more on Charles than the car, otherwise the drivers and the team are doing a great job at closing the gap. Hope they beat Red Bull on pure pace sometime soon!

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scuderiabrandon
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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strategy correct, not sure how that is done but here you go anyways.


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Vanja #66
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Even with Australia win, for me this race was Ferrari's most impressive so far. On the hottest day of the weekend and after a very disappointing Q session, they delivered in the race in fashion. If Perez didn't just deliver career best race in Japan, it would have been a completely deserved double podium.

Image

Arguably, both Ferraris were slowed down by McLarens in the first stint, looks like by 3-5 tenths a lap. Taking that into account and all the time lost overtaking after pitting, Sainz would have been at least 5s closer and Leclerc even more even with that off in Degner 2. Sainz was fairly equal to Max on Hards, even though he had to overtake 4 (?) cars in the same stint.

Somewhere around this time last year I started to look at RB and Ferrari deg from a tyre operation point of view, but there were so many things wrong with SF23 so I didn't bother discussing it as there wasn't any consistent data. Even the end of season performance skewed things so much. However after a very different start this year, and especially with Hass' 2024 results and race pace, I am now 99% certain there's something inherent to tyre treatment depending on how you design the suspension, and not just pure setup and driving style.

This is a bit simplistic diagram of X tyre compound behaviour regarding grip and deg as a function of tyre temp. I've asked some people who know more of that matter and was told it's simplistic but overall trends are accurate - there's a temp sweet-spot for optimal grip and in general the hotter the tyre the more it will degrade. In 2023, I think this is a fairly accurate state of tyre treatment:

Image

I believe it was almost the same for RB in 2022 and Ferrari was more to the left but not as much as RB. In any case, this situation would have left Ferrari with very narrow performance window and dropping out of it would mean either huge deg or unexpectedly poor cornering performance. Last year we saw both things happen during races. At the same time, it would be incredibly easy to keep the car at the peak of performance in Q and this was also the case last year. This year I think we have something like this:

Image

Basically, Ferrari moved their window to where RB was last 2 years and RB moved more towards peak performance this year, but nowhere near SF-23 levels. Seeing how things went today, I can't imagine Max would have been able to repeat the brutal one-stop performance of Miami 2023. I'd even say this might be almost complete reversal of early 2022 tyre treatment, since even then RB was realistically closer in the race than they were on Q pace.

All in all I don't think there's much difference between these two approaches. Arguably, trading a bit of peak grip for better deg is always better for the race since it allows you to push without fear of sudden massive drop-off - exhibit A: Australia race and differences between Sainz' and Leclerc's 3rd stint. It also gives far more resistance on temperature variations between Q and race and during the race. On the other hand, if you get the pole and are able to run in clear air you can also control the race so it's not a bad approach.

What would be the best of both worlds? Setting the car up for the race and having enough downforce to still put the car on pole. From everything Vasseur and Cardille said so far - they are happy with how they handle the tyres and won't compromise it for outright performance, they will add performance through downforce alone and these are the 3-4 tenths they always mention. After so many pointless pole positions last year, this really is the right way to the top for Ferrari.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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Harvester
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I see everyone praises strategy. Obviously they didn't make any mistakes this time but they also didn't do anything extraordinary.
I think it is clear that with the pace they had Leclerc would finish 4th even on two stopper.
Of course TV graphics showing leclerc would finish 7th with two stops is wrong.

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atanatizante
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Sorry for not reading the last pages and someone mentioned before but for me, it seems that LEC set up his car to preserve the tyres, hence he did the longest 24-lap stint on the M tyres on all drivers, and successfully attempted a 1-stop race after he figured out later in the first stint that is doable.

I think he`s still afraid that the SF24 didn't improve too much on the tyre degradation front, especially for the rear ones. So setting up to be kinder on them he didn't have enough downforce at the rear and he paid the price in qualy for sliding the rears in S1 due to not getting the tyres in the window at that stage ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
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Waz
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Well executed race again by Ferrari and both drivers. Nothing flashy, just solid, and assured.

The changes in race operations and management having a good effect this season.

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Jambier
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Very happy with this team and what Fred is doing.

Let’s grab more wins now and keep pushing

LM10
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Excellent execution maximizing what was possible after starting the race on P4 and P8. Despite being stuck behind slower cars stressing the tyres more, the deg was outstanding once again. And as expected Ferrari was the clear best of the rest with McLarens not posing a threat in the slightest.

Both drivers, but Charles in particular on his one stopper did an amazing job. Well done to the strategy team there which made use of the better tyre deg nicely - it paid off.

Can't praise the job done with the car enough. A pace deficit of only about 0.4 sec per lap on a track which arguably is the best track of RedBull is something and don't forget the upgrade RedBull already brought. The first 3 races showed the potential of the SF-24, but Ferrari have definitely raised the bar even more at Suzuka. They've come such a long way from being a tyre destroyer for the major part of last season to getting tyre whisperers on a tyre eating track. Amazing job. Forza Ferrari! =D>

SoulPancake13
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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If someone really thinks that Max himself is pulling out 20+ second wins and that has little to do with the car, then have at it, feed into your delusions. Either way, I don't see the relevance to Ferrari in this discussion.

Something more on topic: Sainz's lap times were 1.83 seconds faster on average than last year. What a development in 6 months, I have a really good feeling about that Imola package. Also, China should be a good track for us, lots of long corners that the SF24 seems to really like.

CouncilorIrissa
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Chinese GP will be very interesting as I feel it’s the most neutral of all the circuits we’ve had so far. It has a long straight, a mix of long and short radius corners, high speed stuff, low speed stuff, you name it. A big test for the car for sure.

SoulPancake13
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Mod edit - off topic quotes removed

I think Charles is quite convinced he needs to do the improving in qualy and it is not a car issue. They just need to find the right warmup procedure, the lap is good, as he extracts the most out of the grip, the issue is that he is not getting all the grip available.