2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[scuderiabrandon]

But then why is Charles talking about a different PU strategy (energy management)?

Could just be his presumptions before he's gotten more info.

Or just excuse making, though Ferrari tends to be little pleased with their drivers criticizing their drivetrains.

Either way, very annoying weekend for me. We're not bad, but it's very frustrating that we've gone from clear 2nd best with some hopes for occasional wins throughout the season to being thankful for even being on the podium cuz we're clear 3rd best.

EDIT: In terms of downforce/drag levels, I feel it's more that Mclaren have made a huge leap here than Ferrari suffering from bad choices. Annoying as hell to acknowledge, but that's my read. In comparison to Red Bull, we seem to be about the same as we were before.

No we definitely improved vs RB, but Mclaren jump is almost scary. They went from 6-7 tenths a lap behind to being therebouts. They went from being a pig on straight to one of the fastest.

Their upgrade was serious.

Their jump isn't scary, please think back to Australia, our strongest weekend, they were right there, I don't remember but I'm sure the difference was again a small as a tenth in race trim.

They've sorted the overheating they were facing in the races before, which is why they've made such leaps in the race and why they were so quick in a cold Suzuka qualifying session and throughout the Chinese GP weekend. They always had a quick one lap car.

[bananapeel23]

Could just be his presumptions before he's gotten more info.

Or just excuse making, though Ferrari tends to be little pleased with their drivers criticizing their drivetrains.

Either way, very annoying weekend for me. We're not bad, but it's very frustrating that we've gone from clear 2nd best with some hopes for occasional wins throughout the season to being thankful for even being on the podium cuz we're clear 3rd best.

EDIT: In terms of downforce/drag levels, I feel it's more that Mclaren have made a huge leap here than Ferrari suffering from bad choices. Annoying as hell to acknowledge, but that's my read. In comparison to Red Bull, we seem to be about the same as we were before.

No we definitely improved vs RB, but Mclaren jump is almost scary. They went from 6-7 tenths a lap behind to being therebouts. They went from being a pig on straight to one of the fastest.

Their upgrade was serious.

Their jump isn't scary, please think back to Australia, our strongest weekend, they were right there, I don't remember but I'm sure the difference was again a small as a tenth in race trim.

They've sorted the overheating they were facing in the races before, which is why they've made such leaps in the race and why they were so quick in a cold Suzuka qualifying session and throughout the Chinese GP weekend. They always had a quick one lap car.

There were certainly races where the Ferrari was significantly faster than McLaren, the difference has definitely been well over a tenth on average. Both Ferrari and McLaren have improved a ton compared to Red Bull, but McLaren definitely seems to have found more performance than Ferrari and they seem to be roughly at parity, leaning slightly in favour of McLaren.

[CouncilorIrissa]

Their jump isn't scary, please think back to Australia, our strongest weekend, they were right there, I don't remember but I'm sure the difference was again a small as a tenth in race trim.

They've sorted the overheating they were facing in the races before, which is why they've made such leaps in the race and why they were so quick in a cold Suzuka qualifying session and throughout the Chinese GP weekend. They always had a quick one lap car.

Sainz took off in his first stint at a much quicker rate than .1s. Same for his second stint, albeit the advantage wasn't as big. It's only in the late part of the race that MCL was remotely competitive.

The fact of the matter is that they managed to remedy two of their issues -- tyre managment and straight-line speed while retaining their strengths and had a large performance jump on top of that, AND brought their upgrade a race earlier.

[scuderiabrandon]

No we definitely improved vs RB, but Mclaren jump is almost scary. They went from 6-7 tenths a lap behind to being therebouts. They went from being a pig on straight to one of the fastest.

Their upgrade was serious.

Their jump isn't scary, please think back to Australia, our strongest weekend, they were right there, I don't remember but I'm sure the difference was again a small as a tenth in race trim.

They've sorted the overheating they were facing in the races before, which is why they've made such leaps in the race and why they were so quick in a cold Suzuka qualifying session and throughout the Chinese GP weekend. They always had a quick one lap car.

There were certainly races where the Ferrari was significantly faster than McLaren, the difference has definitely been well over a tenth on average. Both Ferrari and McLaren have improved a ton compared to Red Bull, but McLaren definitely seems to have found more performance than Ferrari and they seem to be roughly at parity, leaning slightly in favour of McLaren.

Because they had a bigger margin. It's the same reason they were able to go 1 second quicker in 2023. Not a single top team in 2023 found close to a second from in-season development. There is just less margin when you are already had a better base. From the testing restrictions to the budget cap, these regulations are forged to inspire convergence. It's pretty hard to avoid it. And let's not act like McLaren came from the gutters & against all odds.

The car in 2024 already had good base level performance, they just couldn't express it in the races due to overheating. And that became more evident on cooler weekends. That is seemingly gone now. In addition to that, they've lowered the drag a bit as well.

And that's not to diminish the job they've done, which is incredible. There are teams brining upgrades and going backwards, it's certainly not easy.

[LM10]

https://x.com/FDataAnalysis/status/1792211827981435010

How many of you would have believed when someone at the end of last season had told you Ferrari to basically be as fast as the Red Bull in Imola 2024? For those who are immediately present criticising Ferrari's performance week in week out maybe should think of this question first.

Now some will bring the argument of how big of a jump McLaren made - yes, that's true, but also keep in mind that last season at the time Ferrari was still trying to solve the problems the FIA brought them with TD039, McLaren already had a sorted out car concept wise. Despite that Ferrari started 2024 even ahead of McLaren which should definitely be appreciated. They only dropped back relative to McLaren after the huge upgrade package they brought in Miami. I'm sure Ferrari has got more in the pipeline and don't think McLaren to be able to repeat such a big jump simply from a budget cap point of view.

Let's wait and see how much of performance Ferrari can extract out of the current package by understanding it more and also what the next upgrades (which rather will address the "issues" the car has shown from start of the season) will bring.

[FDD]

Not a bad race, good pace on Hards, Leclerc pushing to the limit and a slight understeer cost him a bit. I guess he slowed down and cruised afterwards.

Sainz was a bit slower than expected this weekend. Strategy was ok, worth waiting a bit to see if there's a V/SC period. Good points haul, not maximised again, bit now that all 3 teams are closer it won't be possible to maximise everywhere like first 4 races

He slowed down and cruising cause he understand that can not overtake Lando, or he "ate" the tires???
If is the first one, I am more than satisfied with the performance.
I think is the first one, he suddenly backed off and keep that tempo.

Leclerc didn't back off at all (outside the last 2 laps). Norris started lapping in 20.1 and even did a 19.9. He was in another league.

Wondering did LEC have enough life in his tires to keep Norris's pace

[scuderiabrandon]

He slowed down and cruising cause he understand that can not overtake Lando, or he "ate" the tires???
If is the first one, I am more than satisfied with the performance.
I think is the first one, he suddenly backed off and keep that tempo.

Leclerc didn't back off at all (outside the last 2 laps). Norris started lapping in 20.1 and even did a 19.9. He was in another league.

Wondering did LEC have enough life in his tires to keep Norris's pace

Whether he did is besides the point. When he was pushing he was able to match a struggling Norris. They were just generational on the hard tyre. They had the quickest car this weekend qualy and race, Red Bull were just really quick on the medium and in general they've been superfast at the start of races, which was enough to cover Norris of for today.

In hindsight, having Norris on pole would've been better for Ferrari. Had he stayed in front of Verstappen at the start in that instance, that would've opened the strategy a bit more for us.

[CouncilorIrissa]

https://x.com/FDataAnalysis/status/1792211827981435010
How many of you would have believed when someone at the end of last season had told you Ferrari to basically be as fast as the Red Bull in Imola 2024? For those who are immediately present criticising Ferrari's performance week in week out maybe should think of this question first.

Now some will bring the argument of how big of a jump McLaren made - yes, that's true, but also keep in mind that last season at the time Ferrari was still trying to solve the problems the FIA brought them with TD039, McLaren already had a sorted out car concept wise. Despite that Ferrari started 2024 even ahead of McLaren which should definitely be appreciated. They only dropped back relative to McLaren after the huge upgrade package they brought in Miami. I'm sure Ferrari has got more in the pipeline and don't think McLaren to be able to repeat such a big jump simply from a budget cap point of view.

Red Bull are clearly feeling shockwaves of early season drama and their engineers having been poached left, right and center. This had to come into play sooner or later.

Regarding MCL: I also thought that they exhausted all of the low-hanging fruit with their 2023 upgrades, and then they reproduced that again. I wouldn't be surprised to see them do that again at this point.

[scuderiabrandon]

https://x.com/FDataAnalysis/status/1792211827981435010
How many of you would have believed when someone at the end of last season had told you Ferrari to basically be as fast as the Red Bull in Imola 2024? For those who are immediately present criticising Ferrari's performance week in week out maybe should think of this question first.

Now some will bring the argument of how big of a jump McLaren made - yes, that's true, but also keep in mind that last season at the time Ferrari was still trying to solve the problems the FIA brought them with TD039, McLaren already had a sorted out car concept wise. Despite that Ferrari started 2024 even ahead of McLaren which should definitely be appreciated. They only dropped back relative to McLaren after the huge upgrade package they brought in Miami. I'm sure Ferrari has got more in the pipeline and don't think McLaren to be able to repeat such a big jump simply from a budget cap point of view.

Red Bull are clearly feeling shockwaves of early season drama and their engineers having been poached left, right and center. This had to come into play sooner or later.

Regarding MCL: I also thought that they exhausted all of the low-hanging fruit with their 2023 upgrades, and then they reproduced that again. I wouldn't be surprised to see them do that again at this point.

But there was one glaring issue with the launch spec, and that was overheating tyres, which they fixed. I promise you this is the majority of their gains in race trim, the other gains come from lowering drag. We already saw a super quick MCL38 in cooler conditions. Good on them for solving it though.

[wowgr8]

Lecler:

"We lost everything in the straights, and they are doing something weird with the energy, engine-wise, McLaren and Red Bull," he said. “We’ve got to look into it, but nothing that isn't possible to change.

“So we’ll look into that, and once we fix that I think we’ve got a real shot of going back on the top step for the podium," he concluded.

This is very interesting. Albano says he has noticed this in the data for a while, like for months and possibly years, Charles says it's an easy fix, why wouldn't it have been solved sooner? It's also cool and rare to hear a driver give up info like this that's usually secret

[yooogurt]

Whether he did is besides the point. When he was pushing he was able to match a struggling Norris. They were just generational on the hard tyre. They had the quickest car this weekend qualy and race, Red Bull were just really quick on the medium and in general they've been superfast at the start of races, which was enough to cover Norris of for today.

Imagine if the stint on the medium was the last and the race started on the hard, would ppl say that McLaren was the fastest in the race?
I think that if you split the race into three parts, each was faster than a certain team's driver.

[yooogurt]

This is very interesting. Albano says he has noticed this in the data for a while, like for months and possibly years, Charles says it's an easy fix, why wouldn't it have been solved sooner? It's also cool and rare to hear a driver give up info like this that's usually secret

Maybe it was a compromise that there was no option to opt out of, but after the updates, there was.
And it sounds like the pilot was upset at first, but then he got hope.

[dani5549]

I think it was an alright race. Charles was losing over 3 tenths in the first sector every time compared to Norris, but he still managed to get a good laptime in s2 and s3. Afterwards, Lando found the pace on the hards which is a bit strange considering they were 20+ laps old, but maybe that would have been what would have happened with Max and Charles aswell in a few laps considering older tyres and Norris pace before that and Max beginning to struggle just as Norris

[Sidewinder]

In a way its good as it shows we need engineer like Adrian Newey and this way we will ensure we go hard for him and with Lewis next year and upcoming regulation changes we need the legendary engineer.

Indeed, there's a silver lining. Newey has stated in no uncertain terms in the past that he did not want to be seen as glory hunting. Joining McLaren now that they have a car that is on par if not arguably better than Red Bull would amount to that.

They only dropped back relative to McLaren after the huge upgrade package they brought in Miami. I'm sure Ferrari has got more in the pipeline and don't think McLaren to be able to repeat such a big jump simply from a budget cap point of view.

I don't know about that, Stella clearly stated after Miami they have more coming to solve the low speed. Which suggests they are compromising on their high speed performance to cover that weakness at the moment. The impression I get is they have a lot more clarity than Ferrari on how to bring more performance to the car and hence efficiency in development, which is crucially important in this regulatory environment.

[AmateurDriver]

But then why is Charles talking about a different PU strategy (energy management)?

Could just be his presumptions before he's gotten more info.

Or just excuse making, though Ferrari tends to be little pleased with their drivers criticizing their drivetrains.

Either way, very annoying weekend for me. We're not bad, but it's very frustrating that we've gone from clear 2nd best with some hopes for occasional wins throughout the season to being thankful for even being on the podium cuz we're clear 3rd best.

EDIT: In terms of downforce/drag levels, I feel it's more that Mclaren have made a huge leap here than Ferrari suffering from bad choices. Annoying as hell to acknowledge, but that's my read. In comparison to Red Bull, we seem to be about the same as we were before. It's unbearable.

1 tenth (race pace & qualifying) between Mclaren Red Bull & Ferrari = clear 3rd best.

Please be real. That's 5degC swing in track temperature, one mistake, one bad pit stop away from having a complete 180 on 1st & 3rd force. Ultimately, we'll go to circuits that will favour us more and vice versa. I can't believe the hissy fit people are throwing, this victim complex needs to stop.

In Miami, we were again a tenth slower than Norris without any major updates, why? Because it was very much a favourable circuit along with favourable conditions. Not to even mention Norris had a 10 lap tyre offset. Mclaren came into Imola saying it will be a strong weekend for them & that's what happened, they had the fastest car. Verstappen lucked out with the tow in Q and having track position is crucial. That's how fine the margins are.

You have to accept that this is how it is going to be for the next two years if we stay on this trajectory.

So there are even tifosi not buying the usual, trite Ferrari propaganda. We are clearly missing something: this team can build a car that reach to within say 3 tenths behind the best in class (more or less what they're already achieving), but not much more. They lack some fundamental know-how to be truly eligible to win a title, they know this but it seems they are not exactly selling their souls to have it. Red Bull has it of course, McLaren got to acquire it by poaching Marshall from Red Bull. Ability to predict improvement in performance by Red Bull (new concept) and McLaren (recent upgrade) speaks loud: they know very well what they are doing. This weekend Ferrari was again disappointing, expecially in quali, despite a new package that -before being strategically downplayed- was worthy spending a filming day to pre-test: and at end of the day they came up saying, oddly enough we were weak in terms of EOS speed, but we were strong in turns. Come Montecarlo, where everyone one will be set up to maximize cornering and -I fear- they'll say the opposite. They are not to be blamed for failing to succeed: competitions is there with the same targets, and if rivals prove to be more capable you have to compliment them, rather then blaming your favourite team. But this attitude, promising when they know they can't keep, creating expectations just to tear them down when the "proof of the pudding" is imminent, that is simply irritating.