2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[bauc]

Guys, please restrain from sharing clickbait news from yellow stamp sources.

Now, what are our chances in Canada? I',m suspecting Ferrari will have the upper hand again, but it should be close between all 3 and for sure Max will want to show everone that they are still the main force in F1.

I'm sensing a good weekend is coming

[LionsHeart]

Having listened to plenty of genuinely professional aerodynamicists, the level of complete confidence you have in your analysis is the giant red flag that anybody should be able to notice. You say it's just your opinion, but you were making huge conclusions here, not just some "Well perhaps it's doing this or that", you were straight up using one huge conclusion and then leaping off that to make another huge conclusion, til you literally had the the whole thing figured out.

And have I thought about whether Mclaren actually has it all figured out and are just lying, pretending they dont? Yea, I did actually. And my second thought after that was realizing how stupid it would be for F1 engineers to make themselves sound incompetent.

Listen. This is a forum where anyone can express their opinion. Everyone is trying to get to the truth to some extent. He tries to spin the flywheel to try to get to the essence with the support of other interlocutors. In order to come to certain conclusions, it is necessary to make some kind of analysis. To analyze, you need inputs. Wouldn't you agree? I don't call myself an aerodynamic engineer and I don't consider myself an expert. It's just my reasoning. I don't understand why some people get a kick out of it. If I take the same position as you, I should consider everyone an impostor? Is that it?

This is not the first time I have noticed that my reasoning is being overly harshly criticized. If everyone starts behaving like this, then activity on the forum will decrease. Why can’t people simply have a calm dialogue; instead, they should boast about their authority and possibly their rating level. This rating does not affect anything.

You are allowed to state your 'opinion'(even though you state it as fact), and other people are allowed to question it. Why do so many never understand this? It's like every 'free speech' advocate.

And I've been perfectly calm in my responses. Nowhere was I insulting you or anything of the sort. It's just my opinion that your analysis isn't credible. Am I not allowed to have my opinion on things?

The fact of the matter is that everyone who writes openly on the forum can receive their share of criticism. This is fine. I welcome this positively and this is how it should be. But let's do this in an appropriate tone. That person is not my friend and he does not know me personally to talk down to me. I always write on the basis of what my conclusions were made. I always simplify everything so that everyone can understand it. Why should I go deeper into the CFD jungle? Should I now have a supercomputer in my home? Maybe we can also build a wind tunnel to test my conclusions?

Why, when I had a calm and smooth dialogue with Emag, I did not go to extremes like him. I respect his cautious position before the Monaco weekend, and after qualifying he was surprised that McLaren was indeed stronger than he expected. Although until recently he was sure that Ferrari would be stronger in slow corners. Did I blame him for his cautious expectations? I was closer to the truth and later received confirmation from the telemetry, and then from Andrea, that the chassis gained more power in slow corners.

Even then I gave arguments why McLaren would be strong in slow corners. Did someone support me? Having said that, I respect Emag's position. This was justifiably true on his part. But I have my own vision of what is coming. And just because of my opinion should I receive criticism?

If you don’t understand why I started this from so far away, then I’ll explain. It all started when I made my case for why McLaren wouldn't be slow in the slow corners and that they would be very competitive in qualifying and that in practice they just weren't showing their raw speed. Even then I wrote my simple position, on the basis of which the updated chassis could improve so much in slow sections.

I received direct confirmation of my own comments, which I wrote before Friday training. About my expectations for qualification. And I never wrote that McLaren would fight for pole. After watching and studying the telemetry, I found out that McLaren are the fastest in the hairpin and in turns 10-11. It surprised even me, to be honest.

And it was a simple dialogue. No argument. Everything was smooth. And I prefer good communication, when everyone respects everyone. It's useful for everyone. And if people are ready to criticize me for my opinion, then be prepared for the fact that I or someone else will criticize another person for his position.

And now about Andrea Stella. I respect him. And I was happy for him when he took over the team. But there are a couple of points that are confirmed here in this thread. All you have to do is search and find them. In the spring, when the updates were in development or at the production stage, Andrea said more than once that the team was happy with the data they were getting from the simulator, CFD and wind tunnel. And in general he said that it is not worth bringing updates early if there is an opportunity to improve something else to make the chassis even faster.

From his words and comments one can understand that the team is moving in the right direction. We discussed on the forum many times then, what exactly is the team preparing? Front fender, brake ducts, floor, sidepods, etc. But none of us thought that the team would bring such an impressive package of updates. Moreover, by this time the weekend in Miami was approaching and Andrea and Lando began to play low. They say that the updates are not so large and they are not designed for slow turns and that the increase per lap will not be so large. Yes, he mentioned Austria 2023, but that was to be expected. I wrote in the thread back then that either Andrea was leading us by the nose, or he had memory problems. After all, in the spring he said one thing, and now he said something else. Well, oh well, who knows, maybe they decided to make adjustments to the modernization plan? Don't blame him for this.

Based on his last comments at the time, I made assumptions that since the package is small and the increase will also be small, we will expect a 0.2 second increase in qualifying and a 0.3 second increase in the race. Let's just say these were realistic expectations. But already on Friday we see a list from the FIA, which shows that the chassis has been completely redesigned and almost all the aerodynamic surfaces have been changed. Which is what Andrea also talked about in the spring.

Now many may write that the team simply decided to take a position with low expectations so as not to be disappointed. Maybe. We can't verify this. And now, in the last days of the forum, we are discussing Stella’s words that the car has gained even more in slow sections than expected. At the same time, the increase in downforce itself is what the team expected. Then where else does the additional increase come from? Changes to suspension settings? Lando and Oscar's greater confidence when driving? Perhaps all together. I can see from the onboards that the grip in the front part has become larger. This didn't happen last year. Does this mean that Stella is a liar? Of course no! I never implied that he was a liar! But sometimes the team likes to play low.

And now each of us is trying to understand the reasons why the team has improved so much in slow corners. And I also have my opinion and decided to publish it. And for this he received a sharp portion of criticism. Just for my personal position? Funny.

[bauc]

Listen. This is a forum where anyone can express their opinion. Everyone is trying to get to the truth to some extent. He tries to spin the flywheel to try to get to the essence with the support of other interlocutors. In order to come to certain conclusions, it is necessary to make some kind of analysis. To analyze, you need inputs. Wouldn't you agree? I don't call myself an aerodynamic engineer and I don't consider myself an expert. It's just my reasoning. I don't understand why some people get a kick out of it. If I take the same position as you, I should consider everyone an impostor? Is that it?

This is not the first time I have noticed that my reasoning is being overly harshly criticized. If everyone starts behaving like this, then activity on the forum will decrease. Why can’t people simply have a calm dialogue; instead, they should boast about their authority and possibly their rating level. This rating does not affect anything.

You are allowed to state your 'opinion'(even though you state it as fact), and other people are allowed to question it. Why do so many never understand this? It's like every 'free speech' advocate.

And I've been perfectly calm in my responses. Nowhere was I insulting you or anything of the sort. It's just my opinion that your analysis isn't credible. Am I not allowed to have my opinion on things?

The fact of the matter is that everyone who writes openly on the forum can receive their share of criticism. This is fine. I welcome this positively and this is how it should be. But let's do this in an appropriate tone. That person is not my friend and he does not know me personally to talk down to me. I always write on the basis of what my conclusions were made. I always simplify everything so that everyone can understand it. Why should I go deeper into the CFD jungle? Should I now have a supercomputer in my home? Maybe we can also build a wind tunnel to test my conclusions?

Why, when I had a calm and smooth dialogue with Emag, I did not go to extremes like him. I respect his cautious position before the Monaco weekend, and after qualifying he was surprised that McLaren was indeed stronger than he expected. Although until recently he was sure that Ferrari would be stronger in slow corners. Did I blame him for his cautious expectations? I was closer to the truth and later received confirmation from the telemetry, and then from Andrea, that the chassis gained more power in slow corners.

Even then I gave arguments why McLaren would be strong in slow corners. Did someone support me? Having said that, I respect Emag's position. This was justifiably true on his part. But I have my own vision of what is coming. And just because of my opinion should I receive criticism?

If you don’t understand why I started this from so far away, then I’ll explain. It all started when I made my case for why McLaren wouldn't be slow in the slow corners and that they would be very competitive in qualifying and that in practice they just weren't showing their raw speed. Even then I wrote my simple position, on the basis of which the updated chassis could improve so much in slow sections.

I received direct confirmation of my own comments, which I wrote before Friday training. About my expectations for qualification. And I never wrote that McLaren would fight for pole. After watching and studying the telemetry, I found out that McLaren are the fastest in the hairpin and in turns 10-11. It surprised even me, to be honest.

And it was a simple dialogue. No argument. Everything was smooth. And I prefer good communication, when everyone respects everyone. It's useful for everyone. And if people are ready to criticize me for my opinion, then be prepared for the fact that I or someone else will criticize another person for his position.

And now about Andrea Stella. I respect him. And I was happy for him when he took over the team. But there are a couple of points that are confirmed here in this thread. All you have to do is search and find them. In the spring, when the updates were in development or at the production stage, Andrea said more than once that the team was happy with the data they were getting from the simulator, CFD and wind tunnel. And in general he said that it is not worth bringing updates early if there is an opportunity to improve something else to make the chassis even faster.

From his words and comments one can understand that the team is moving in the right direction. We discussed on the forum many times then, what exactly is the team preparing? Front fender, brake ducts, floor, sidepods, etc. But none of us thought that the team would bring such an impressive package of updates. Moreover, by this time the weekend in Miami was approaching and Andrea and Lando began to play low. They say that the updates are not so large and they are not designed for slow turns and that the increase per lap will not be so large. Yes, he mentioned Austria 2023, but that was to be expected. I wrote in the thread back then that either Andrea was leading us by the nose, or he had memory problems. After all, in the spring he said one thing, and now he said something else. Well, oh well, who knows, maybe they decided to make adjustments to the modernization plan? Don't blame him for this.

Based on his last comments at the time, I made assumptions that since the package is small and the increase will also be small, we will expect a 0.2 second increase in qualifying and a 0.3 second increase in the race. Let's just say these were realistic expectations. But already on Friday we see a list from the FIA, which shows that the chassis has been completely redesigned and almost all the aerodynamic surfaces have been changed. Which is what Andrea also talked about in the spring.

Now many may write that the team simply decided to take a position with low expectations so as not to be disappointed. Maybe. We can't verify this. And now, in the last days of the forum, we are discussing Stella’s words that the car has gained even more in slow sections than expected. At the same time, the increase in downforce itself is what the team expected. Then where else does the additional increase come from? Changes to suspension settings? Lando and Oscar's greater confidence when driving? Perhaps all together. I can see from the onboards that the grip in the front part has become larger. This didn't happen last year. Does this mean that Stella is a liar? Of course no! I never implied that he was a liar! But sometimes the team likes to play low.

And now each of us is trying to understand the reasons why the team has improved so much in slow corners. And I also have my opinion and decided to publish it. And for this he received a sharp portion of criticism. Just for my personal position? Funny.

Guys, you are both right in your own perspective and that is fine, it is good to share and elaborate on this level and please keep it cool, this is not a club of politics but a club of sport, any opinion here is welcomed with open arms. We lost so good members with great technical and practical knowledge over the years just because of this type of clashes and stubbornness of some people who came, saw, did the damage and since have runned away from this place, please be cool and keep sharing your great opinions and ideas.

Thank you all!

[Vanja #66]

It does look like McLaren have gone from a circuit specific type of performance to an all-rounder. It's not hard to imagine Max in the 38B would have won every race since Miami. No criticism of our two young drivers who are doing a great job.

Without the Hulk draft Max would've been P3 in Imola Q anyway, so I don't think he'd have done better in a McLaren than Piastri. I think Piastri is still underrated, especially on one-lap pace. I expect a lot from him in Canada as well, a pole is right there for him in my view.

[mwillems]

Drivers having confidence to push harder reminds me of "success breeds success". Good to hear that it's across the board too e.g. not specific to low-speed corners. Will be interesting to see how this plays out across the season.

Imola had a setup directed towards low speeds, so did Miami and Monaco. It's safe to say that this car has not been tested yet where it is to be set up for a tracks like Canada and Barcelona. Barcelona is known as a great place to test what your car can do, just like Japan.

Yeah, probably all Barcelona lacks now is very slow corners (S2 still seems quite fast, might be wrong).

I think it was spoken about at length over the past 6 to 8 weeks that a car that you trust and where you can more readily feel the limits is a car that the drivers will be more confident in extracting consistent time in the race and allow the drivers to find a smaller amount of time on their fast laps, but also be able to reliably get in laps that were close to, but stayed on the right side of, the edge of what the car can do.

Crosswind sensitivity seems a little better? I remember Lando losing a quali lap with it earlier this season?

Tyre deg at lower track temps seems better than before?

The answer likely lies in some mix of the drivers getting less from the raw downforce potential of the previous car than expected, they are getting more from the potential of the current car or quite simply when all the variables are put together as a package that works well, additional time can be found that isn't specific to a part of the car.

I look forward to hearing from the team in a race or two about why this worked, although I suspect this is something they will keep quiet.

I suspect so too, but it is fun to guess

It's great to hear that the low speed corners are the area most improved and that it is looking "good" in the low speeds. Suggests the old weaknesses of the car are gone.

But as I say, it's not yet been seen at a track where the setup isn't so focussed. This is why I was saying to LionsHeart that the next 3 tracks would be very interesting.

Yeah, I looked at the schedule for the first time in ages. I'm actually quite keen to see performance on the Red Bull Ring, although the mix of corners is atypical.

It's a bit misleading to look at sectors. It was happening at Monaco where we'd lose time at various points on the track, gain it back at others and we'd look good in a sector, but we'd lose a smaller amount of time in the last sector and that would be the headline because we didn't gain it back. Reality is there were several points in the track where we lost and gained with the last corner being just one. The sectors are just something consumable for casual fans.

Barcelona has a Hairpin at turn 10 and some slow turns at 5 and 14, 15 with 12 being a nice long slower turn. it's got some faster flowing sections and a great last corner so that we can exit onto the straight at speed and test the efficiency. Plenty there for the team to think about in setup and in data. Canada too is a great challenge and I can't wait.

Fingers crossed we can keep up our run of finishing no lower than second!

[Ground Effect]

FIA supposedly want to check McLaren fuel flow regulator….



I hope nothing come from this and if it does then it might only be a quali thing

Fuel pumps are a spec part. I don't think they would do anything funny there. Would be pretty stupid after the Ferrari fiasco in 2019.

If they are indeed doing anything, they deserve to be disqualified from all races this season so far.

Incredibly dumb to play with stuff like this.

Just like Ferrari were disqualified from all races the participated in 2019, before it was discovered?

[mwillems]

Just like Ferrari were disqualified from all races the participated in 2019, before it was discovered?

Anything is possible. But could you see Stella and Zak being OK with that, and being OK with anyone that had done it? Would anyone in Mclaren risk everything this year including their own jobs when the team are making relentless progress? The hits to the brand and sponsorship? Ferrari, unfortunately, are able to get away with a lot more than we could, for a variety of reasons. For Mclaren the consequences would be greater.

I really doubt we've done anything with the fuel flow regulator, but let's see.

[Emag]

FIA supposedly want to check McLaren fuel flow regulator….



I hope nothing come from this and if it does then it might only be a quali thing

Fuel pumps are a spec part. I don't think they would do anything funny there. Would be pretty stupid after the Ferrari fiasco in 2019.

If they are indeed doing anything, they deserve to be disqualified from all races this season so far.

Incredibly dumb to play with stuff like this.

Just like Ferrari were disqualified from all races the participated in 2019, before it was discovered?

We don't know what exactly Ferrari were doing in 2019, but obviously it was significant enough since 2020 was a disaster for them. Either way, I stand by my statement. If you're so stupid that you decide to cheat on an area which already was looked at and punished before, you deserve to be disqualified.

[Vanja #66]

When Lando's car was picked up in Miami, I saw one curious detail that immediately stood out to me. The lowest pressure area under the floor is now moved back closer to the diffuser area. Thereby shifting the center of pressure back, closer to the center of mass of the chassis. This step allows the use of softer front suspension settings. Wear on the control bar indicates the same thing. I am sure that such a change in aerodynamics played a key role, due to which both balance and handling changed.

The car is now easier for Lando and Oscar to handle because the wear on the front tires is not as bad as before and the chassis does not cause severe understeer. And in some places it’s even the opposite, Lando often pays attention to excessive controllability. As far as I remember, he likes this option better. And Oscar too. And overall the chassis rides much smoother than before.

The softer suspension lowers the front end slightly lower at low speeds. As speed increases, the aerodynamics independently equalize the ground clearance, lowering the front and rear evenly. But the front end now acts as the main link around which the chassis rotates. At Imola I didn't see any sign of a lack of grip at the front end at Turn 7. Everything was great in Miami too. In Monaco, the chassis turned easily at the hairpin and at the exit of turn 10.

The overall center of pressure under the floor and the center of mass of the chassis are now more closely connected and have one common point, around which a more stable balance occurs in all corners.

This might not be too far from the truth actually, but I would add a few things First of all, having a low diffuser kick is a feature of MCL60 as well, at least since Austria. There's a front "kick" as well, which is a lot higher. Here's some photos from Dutch GP weekend





However, at the front there is also a strong vortex generated by turning vanes and this feature has a big impact on CoP position, so I wouldn't presume saying that the diffuser kick is the lowest pressure area. You can find out more in this thread. However, this alone does not negate the point of your observation - it's quite possible the rear of McL38 floor is now generating more downforce than McL60 or launch-spec McL38.

What is curious is how they used lower-load wing in Imola than Bahrain, Suzuka or China from FP1, even though these track are at about the same load level as Imola. This gives a strong indication they were happy with this setup and were aware they wouldn't lose out too much in mid- and high-speed corners. Obviously, this allowed them softer overall suspension settings and allowed them an excellent compromise over the whole lap.

One thing I don't agree with completely is shifting CoP to the back as much as you make it sound, but understanding another comment is always a bit subjective What I would agree with is a possibility of moving the floor CoP in isolation a bit more to the rear, allowing a smaller rear wing to be used and cutting down on drag in doing so. Car's CoP is always behind the CoG, to prevent high-speed oversteer and allow bigger confidence on exit in combination with early throttle application.

I think softer front end since Miami is very likely and it certainly has something to do with the new front wing as well. The important aspect of these cars is how the car behaves at different speeds and how the ride height and suspension stiffness can be optimised for different track conditions. The next step is understanding how the front wing flap flex influences further CoP shift to the rear (and this always happens on every car for years, another feature to give more confidence in high-speed sections) and how this in turn influences the CoP of the floor to change.

I trust Stella when he says they found bigger gains than they expected in slow-speed and I believe this comes from playing with setups in simulator and on track after the aero work on upgrades was already approved. With MCL60 being so far back in early 2023, it's possible the team decided to take a more conservative approach on correlation and expectations. This could even be the case for simulator, perhaps there are some conservative input parameters like Red Bull uses optimistic suspension input parameters and ends up with a "kangaroo" in Monaco

[CjC]

FIA supposedly want to check McLaren fuel flow regulator….



I hope nothing come from this and if it does then it might only be a quali thing

All of this fuel pump stuff came from a twitter user who has deleted their original post about it and basically walked back everything they said.

https://x.com/TristanHomy/status/179735 ... eJkbA&s=19

They talk about a spec component being under suspicion.. of course it's rubbish.

And they use the Leclerc comments as a basis of evidence to support the fuel pump claims, when Leclerc himself clarified that his comments were something Ferrari needed to work on in terms of ERS management rather than anything McLaren/RB were doing special

In this case it really is smoke without fire.

Yea that makes sense.
Thanks for clarifying that the source is utter bull

[CjC]

Guys, please restrain from sharing clickbait news from yellow stamp sources.

Now, what are our chances in Canada? I',m suspecting Ferrari will have the upper hand again, but it should be close between all 3 and for sure Max will want to show everone that they are still the main force in F1.

I'm sensing a good weekend is coming

The source I shared is usually pretty decent, I just wanted to know if anyone had heard anything more.. which they had, I don’t get the time to do my own research anymore

I personally think all 5 cars are going to be close this weekend.

I heard Sainz after Monaco say that Ferrari are half a tenth behind McLaren and a 1 to 2 tenths off Red bull.
Lando said after Monaco that Ferrari are a step ahead for kerb riding.
It’s just going to be another fascinating weekend.
My tip- I bet Ferrari look strong in practise.

[Tomsky]

Switching to torsion bar springs
Only in the third year did the competition react. Ferrari, Mercedes, Haas and Toro Rosso now have similar systems. The one from Ferrari is supposed to be even better than the original. Toro Rosso already benefited from this in the last third of the 2023 season, when they took over the 2023 rear axle from Red Bull. Haas has been using Ferrari technology since the Miami GP.
First of all, the mentioned teams switched from their ancient disc springs to torsion bars. They are much better to dose than the accumulation of ring shells. The fine adjustment of the vehicle height during driving is a decisive factor for Groundeffect cars. "We are talking about differences of half a millimeter here during the setup," reports a team boss.
Previously, the rear was set to a ground clearance of between 140 and 180 millimeters. As a result, the car had about 100 millimeters of freedom of movement over one lap. Of these, about 80 millimeters were accounted for by the suspension travel, the rest by the tires. Today, the cars are between 60 and 70 millimeters above ground when stationary on the rear axle. The suspension over the tires is significantly lower with the 18-inch rims. So there is much less leeway.
An advantage even in slow curves
In the meantime, it's no longer just about buying a little more top speed. The systems are becoming more and more sophisticated and allow an optimization of the ground clearance in the rear in certain speed ranges. The top speed gain is just one of several advantages.
The effects in the other areas are far more profitable. If you have mastered the technology correctly, you can adjust the suspension so that the rear end is relatively high in slow and medium-speed corners and thus has room to cushion curbs and bumps somewhat gently.
With increasing speed and contact pressure, the ground clearance stops at a predetermined minimum in order to get the optimal downforce for fast turns. Only at maximum load on the straights does the suspension go on block and stall occurs.
The steps, from which point in time how far is lowered, must be set before the start of the journey. The necessary technology for this will cost a couple of kilograms, but it pays off. Ferrari has perfected its suspension compared to last year. No other car swallows bumps and curbs as well as the SF-24 and is still competitive in fast corners.
McLaren, Aston Martin, Williams, Sauber and Alpine are still conventionally on the road or they are currently tinkering with dampers and springs, the stiffness of which can be varied better. McLaren team principal Andrea Stella does not trust the peace: "We do not have an explicit lowering device. This can become critical at low ground clearance. You quickly have a loss of downforce in places where you don't want it."
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ndes-heck/

[LionsHeart]

When Lando's car was picked up in Miami, I saw one curious detail that immediately stood out to me. The lowest pressure area under the floor is now moved back closer to the diffuser area. Thereby shifting the center of pressure back, closer to the center of mass of the chassis. This step allows the use of softer front suspension settings. Wear on the control bar indicates the same thing. I am sure that such a change in aerodynamics played a key role, due to which both balance and handling changed.

The car is now easier for Lando and Oscar to handle because the wear on the front tires is not as bad as before and the chassis does not cause severe understeer. And in some places it’s even the opposite, Lando often pays attention to excessive controllability. As far as I remember, he likes this option better. And Oscar too. And overall the chassis rides much smoother than before.

The softer suspension lowers the front end slightly lower at low speeds. As speed increases, the aerodynamics independently equalize the ground clearance, lowering the front and rear evenly. But the front end now acts as the main link around which the chassis rotates. At Imola I didn't see any sign of a lack of grip at the front end at Turn 7. Everything was great in Miami too. In Monaco, the chassis turned easily at the hairpin and at the exit of turn 10.

The overall center of pressure under the floor and the center of mass of the chassis are now more closely connected and have one common point, around which a more stable balance occurs in all corners.

This might not be too far from the truth actually, but I would add a few things First of all, having a low diffuser kick is a feature of MCL60 as well, at least since Austria. There's a front "kick" as well, which is a lot higher. Here's some photos from Dutch GP weekend

https://i.imgur.com/gfop2mG.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/P6hDzeK.jpeg

However, at the front there is also a strong vortex generated by turning vanes and this feature has a big impact on CoP position, so I wouldn't presume saying that the diffuser kick is the lowest pressure area. You can find out more in this thread. However, this alone does not negate the point of your observation - it's quite possible the rear of McL38 floor is now generating more downforce than McL60 or launch-spec McL38.

What is curious is how they used lower-load wing in Imola than Bahrain, Suzuka or China from FP1, even though these track are at about the same load level as Imola. This gives a strong indication they were happy with this setup and were aware they wouldn't lose out too much in mid- and high-speed corners. Obviously, this allowed them softer overall suspension settings and allowed them an excellent compromise over the whole lap.

One thing I don't agree with completely is shifting CoP to the back as much as you make it sound, but understanding another comment is always a bit subjective What I would agree with is a possibility of moving the floor CoP in isolation a bit more to the rear, allowing a smaller rear wing to be used and cutting down on drag in doing so. Car's CoP is always behind the CoG, to prevent high-speed oversteer and allow bigger confidence on exit in combination with early throttle application.

I think softer front end since Miami is very likely and it certainly has something to do with the new front wing as well. The important aspect of these cars is how the car behaves at different speeds and how the ride height and suspension stiffness can be optimised for different track conditions. The next step is understanding how the front wing flap flex influences further CoP shift to the rear (and this always happens on every car for years, another feature to give more confidence in high-speed sections) and how this in turn influences the CoP of the floor to change.

I trust Stella when he says they found bigger gains than they expected in slow-speed and I believe this comes from playing with setups in simulator and on track after the aero work on upgrades was already approved. With MCL60 being so far back in early 2023, it's possible the team decided to take a more conservative approach on correlation and expectations. This could even be the case for simulator, perhaps there are some conservative input parameters like Red Bull uses optimistic suspension input parameters and ends up with a "kangaroo" in Monaco

Thank you for your opinion. A constructive suggestion. I don't remember all the floor pictures from my memory, but I wrote my observations based on the previous two years and only recalled the floor pictures from my memory. So it may be subjective. But having seen the floor from the backside at Miami, that is the impression I got. And yes, based on that, and the way the bar was wiped down, came to those conclusions. It's a casual observation. I made no claim to absolute truth. Why did I say the center of pressure was shifted backwards? I did so based on the fact that the sidepod has a more extended deep undercut. The side bottom of the sidepod at its widest part is now closer to the center of pressure under the floor. That's one of the reasons I wrote it that way. McLaren similarly decided to use a beam wing with the smallest area and smallest angle of attack on Friday in Miami, which made me think even more that the team had added enough downforce at the rear.

I, like any person, make mistakes in my judgments. But if people see this and can correct me, it allows for increased personal education and understanding. Montreal is also a unique track in its own way. There is essentially one quick turn or bend at the end of the first sector. The suspension is adjusted very softly due to the high curbs, and the downforce is adjusted to a medium-low level. This will be another good test to see how much the McL38B improves in slow corners.

It is still unknown how the race weekend will go, plus the weather promises rain. From here there may be changes in terms of settings. But after the race we will come to some thoughts again and perhaps gain even more understanding.

[Emag]

Canada is a track which really punishes the cars which have an "unstable" mechanical platform. If the car is consistent across different ride heights, you can do well there. If you go back to 2019, McLaren had pretty decent top-end downforce, proof of that being their performance on high-speed tracks such as Suzuka.

However they were terrible at maintaining a consistent platform across different conditions, a big part of the reason why their race pace was often lackluster compared to their qualifying pace at certain tracks. (heavier fuel/weight emphasizes car's movements across all axis and an inconsistent platform would suffer more losses).

For this reason, they were 1.5s off the pole in Canada back in 2019.

I took 2019 as a reference, because it's the last qualifying session on clear conditions.

I think McLaren has a pretty good car in that regard this year. Especially after the Miami upgrade which seems to have opened up a lot of options for them setup-wise. I expected Monaco to be more of a challenge for them, but if it wasn't for Leclerc doing his magic, Oscar could have gotten his maiden win there. Bar any weird change in the status quo, I expect Ferrari and McLaren to be very close again. But because in my opinion we haven't seen McLaren run competitively across enough different tracks/scenarios to really put them as the favorite, my cautious approach makes me think that Ferrari might have a slight edge, particularly on race pace.

RedBull is a bit of a question mark. Not sure where to put Max in the order. They struggled with the setup in Imola, but they ended up winning the race. It was way closer than anyone would have expected, and with a McLaren starting on P1 we might have had a different result, but still, they were not looking so good after practice there and ended up winning in Sunday. Monaco was a bit of a surprise to me because Max was pushing like crazy just to try and keep up with Ferrari and McLaren and in the end, he couldn't so he put it in the wall.

I don't think we have seen enough to count out Max & RedBull though. In spite of their struggles, they have still shown glimmers of high competitiveness. If they put everything together, I would assume RedBull is still the favorite.

[mwillems]

I was thinking the same. I think we'll be in front of Ferrari if only by a hair, but I'm not sure what will happen at Canada for Red Bull. Canada is a place that will reward handsomely those who can ride the kerbs and you'd imagine this problem isn't going to go away for Max. They don't really have a straight line advantage anymore either , in fact we've been a little quicker than them if only by a small amount and I think the Mclaren is superior in the high speeds in general.

Buuuuuut.. this is the first time we've seen the upgraded package being setup for a mixed configuration, so it will be interesting.