2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Mostlyeels]

I may also recall someone saying that Mclaren fans were in for a rude awakening in Spain, but we'll leave that one there as I only mention it in jest

I was honestly expecting this, and over the moon it didn't come to pass!

[mwillems]

I may also recall someone saying that Mclaren fans were in for a rude awakening in Spain, but we'll leave that one there as I only mention it in jest

I was honestly expecting this, and over the moon it didn't come to pass!

It wasn't you that I recall saying it, but now it's two of you!

I'm looking at the final corner for Mclaren, it is an oddity.

We don't actually lose much time in the final corner. Not even on the exit of it. We are well and truly on the straight when the delta to Max shrinks rapidly and we lose so much time that I think it is because of deployment strategy and they saved a little bit more battery.

[Emag]

Can't say I understand the fine differences in the cars now as they continue to confound expectations. Red Bull and the high kerbs of Canada, for instance! They didn't do too badly. Ferrari also loving kerbs, surely they will do well on Montreal! Wrong again.

I may also recall someone saying that Mclaren fans were in for a rude awakening in Spain, but we'll leave that one there as I only mention it in jest

I think some of it can be down to set up and what you are able to get out of the car, the margins are that fine. Which is why I suspect it is much the same here today. It isn't just rear wings being the differences between the cars (RBs does look a little bigger), there is a ton of finely tuned differences in how they want the car to behave for the drivers. These details are driving the cars "traits" as much as anything else now, I think.

I wish they could delay the new regs by another year.

I am the one who said that. And until that final lap from Lando, I was afraid I was gonna be right.

Nevertheless, the race is tomorrow. I am not ready to take back my words yet.

[BMMR61]

Because drying conditions on a semi-wet track is far from being representative of the true potential of a car.

As a reminder, Lando was the fastest driver on track by a significant margin last year in Monaco after the rain hit the track. And that was on the MCL60 which hadn't received any of the big upgrades. Pace on a wet or semi-wet drying track tells you nothing about the true pace of the car more so than it does about driver ability to make the most out of the conditions.

Yes, I agree with that. No questions asked.
But it is a bit wrong to take into account some sections and turn a blind eye to others. After all, the race was divided into sections separated by a safety car.

You remember, I don’t like analyzing the average pace in a race, because it also doesn’t reflect the true essence. And I have already given an example before. For example, those graphs don’t take into account the number of pit stops, and they affect the average pace. And if you take into account the time at the finish, then all the pit stops will be included. It seems to be more fair here.

I can repeat my position. I still don’t think that McLaren is the fastest. But it has been consistently in the top 2 in the last five races. And this is already an indicator, since all this was on different tracks with different configurations, with a different number of slow, medium-speed and fast corners.

McLaren is now about where it was in the 2010-2012 seasons. And that's pretty much what I expected after the pre-season tests. On that side, I'm already happy with where the team is. On the other side, the team is aiming higher and wants to win here and now. Maybe they feel the time has come.

Then we are on the same boat. I don't know why people attack the notion of McLaren not having the outright fastest car. I always get confronted when I point that out. It's very quickly become the norm for people to expect them to be on pole and fight for wins. A year back and before that, we were happy to have both cars in Q3. Mindblowing progress and they're performing at a much higher level than should be normally expected of even the already affirmed "top" F1 teams.

Remember, even Ferrari needed 2 burner years to get back to winning races after getting slapped back in 2020. It's very impressive what McLaren has done, and them not having the fastest car does not change that.

I respect your right to your own opinion but it's only that. As is mine. Anyone making claims about "fastest car" last year would be within their rights to say it was more than mere opinion. However after Miami it has been not only been a subjective opinion but subject to track variability. Anyone claiming "fastest car" now is on shaky ground. We are quick to forget what we thought and felt just two weeks ago. Looking forward to Barcelona most of us agreed it would be an uphill battle matching Max here. Also that this track would provide a longer view of the relative merits of the cars. Well we have our answers, but the race is till to come. Max the magician has a knack of winning from not winning positions. A long way to turn 1 lap 1, even further through two pitstops to the chequered flag.

[mwillems]

Final corner again. It is definitely impressive that RB can carry more speed in that corner, but it makes little difference in the delta.

As you can see below, it is not until well into the straight and after the exit that Max reduces the gap, I can only imagine this is deployment. I placed the track marker/white line before the gap even grew by much to highlight the point at which the delta started to shrink. It was well past the corner.

[mwillems]

Can't say I understand the fine differences in the cars now as they continue to confound expectations. Red Bull and the high kerbs of Canada, for instance! They didn't do too badly. Ferrari also loving kerbs, surely they will do well on Montreal! Wrong again.

I may also recall someone saying that Mclaren fans were in for a rude awakening in Spain, but we'll leave that one there as I only mention it in jest

I think some of it can be down to set up and what you are able to get out of the car, the margins are that fine. Which is why I suspect it is much the same here today. It isn't just rear wings being the differences between the cars (RBs does look a little bigger), there is a ton of finely tuned differences in how they want the car to behave for the drivers. These details are driving the cars "traits" as much as anything else now, I think.

I wish they could delay the new regs by another year.

I am the one who said that. And until that final lap from Lando, I was afraid I was gonna be right.

Nevertheless, the race is tomorrow. I am not ready to take back my words yet.

Ahahaha Why delay the inevitable, your hat will only get dryer overnight if you delay eating it until tomorrow

What were you thinking would be the rude awaking? Even starting 4th would have been very close, these cars are very close. Seems that Ferrari are having the rude awakenings, which I find rather pleasing...

[Emag]

Can't say I understand the fine differences in the cars now as they continue to confound expectations. Red Bull and the high kerbs of Canada, for instance! They didn't do too badly. Ferrari also loving kerbs, surely they will do well on Montreal! Wrong again.

I may also recall someone saying that Mclaren fans were in for a rude awakening in Spain, but we'll leave that one there as I only mention it in jest

I think some of it can be down to set up and what you are able to get out of the car, the margins are that fine. Which is why I suspect it is much the same here today. It isn't just rear wings being the differences between the cars (RBs does look a little bigger), there is a ton of finely tuned differences in how they want the car to behave for the drivers. These details are driving the cars "traits" as much as anything else now, I think.

I wish they could delay the new regs by another year.

I am the one who said that. And until that final lap from Lando, I was afraid I was gonna be right.

Nevertheless, the race is tomorrow. I am not ready to take back my words yet.

Ahahaha Why delay the inevitable, your hat will only get dryer overnight if you delay eating it until tomorrow

What were you thinking would be the rude awaking? Even starting 4th would have been very close, these cars are very close. Seems that Ferrari are having the rude awakenings, which I find rather pleasing...

The thing is. Gaps have been close for a while now. Especially in qualifying.

But qualifying doesn't really matter. Its the race that counts.

My rude awakening comment was made under the assumption that Max was gonna have an easy race win here, to put people back on their feet after the hype of a potential wdc battle of the last couple of races.

And as I said before, Max losing out in qualifying doesn't have me convinced yet. Let's see how tomorrow pans out.

Would love to be wrong and Lando gets that win on pure pace.

[mwillems]

Yeah I'll stop talking now, things can easily go against us. But still, I can't see us being lower than 2nd unless there is some racing mishap. I'm happy to be no worse than second fastest at every race.

Looking forward to Hamilton and Verstappen into turn 1.

[Rikhart]

Some clips. As I said, bit hard to fully judge given some camera angles, like the Merc one blocks out the front with with the halo, but for what its worth.... (taken from qualifying.)

Do you have any idea if something like this exists for this weekend? I'm honestly surprised everyone just... forgot about it?

[Emag]

Some clips. As I said, bit hard to fully judge given some camera angles, like the Merc one blocks out the front with with the halo, but for what its worth.... (taken from qualifying.)

Do you have any idea if something like this exists for this weekend? I'm honestly surprised everyone just... forgot about it?

It was already cleared by the FIA. Everything is in compliance with the rules :

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... /10625891/

It's the people here that took Marko's words and blew them out of proportion.

[mwillems]

...

I respect your right to your own opinion but it's only that. As is mine. Anyone making claims about "fastest car" last year would be within their rights to say it was more than mere opinion. However after Miami it has been not only been a subjective opinion but subject to track variability. Anyone claiming "fastest car" now is on shaky ground. We are quick to forget what we thought and felt just two weeks ago. Looking forward to Barcelona most of us agreed it would be an uphill battle matching Max here. Also that this track would provide a longer view of the relative merits of the cars. Well we have our answers, but the race is till to come. Max the magician has a knack of winning from not winning positions. A long way to turn 1 lap 1, even further through two pitstops to the chequered flag.

The idea of fastest car can be too easily undermined, this is the issue.

If you look at the drivers who gained the most points for the top 3 teams since China then Max has gained 84, Lando 73 and Charles 62. Max has continued to extend his championship lead and this fact has become lost in all the drama of the past 5 races.

But it is a very important fact, that the combination of Red Bull and Max are the fastest combination in the past 5 races.

I have no issue with someone thinking this car is the fastest overall, and they can argue that the difference is not the car but the driver, that Max v Lando might still see Max in the lead of they'd swapped cars. Or that it is circumstance. But the problem is that when it is this hard to demonstrate that a given car is faster than an other, I think that alone demonstrates that perhaps we aren't there yet.

[mwillems]

Do you have any idea if something like this exists for this weekend? I'm honestly surprised everyone just... forgot about it?

It was already cleared by the FIA. Everything is in compliance with the rules :

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... /10625891/

It's the people here that took Marko's words and blew them out of proportion.

it wasn't blown out of proportion. One of two things became inevitable. Teams were either going to have to change their wings, or Red Bull will be bringing a wing that will flex to an amount probably a little more than the current benchmark. Even a tenth over a whole lap can be the differences between pole and third at some races, so it's not a small difference and Red Bull will be sure to exploit it if they have been given the green light by the FIA.

Do you have a link to say the FIA have stopped looking at this?

Edit: I've seen it now. I'd stopped following. Was just hoping the FIA didn't make us redesign. I didn't think they would as bit would potentially ruin some of the close racing.

[Emag]

Do you have any idea if something like this exists for this weekend? I'm honestly surprised everyone just... forgot about it?

It was already cleared by the FIA. Everything is in compliance with the rules :

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... /10625891/

It's the people here that took Marko's words and blew them out of proportion.

it wasn't blown out of proportion. One of two things became inevitable. Teams were either going to have to change their wings, or Red Bull will be bringing a wing that will flex to an amount probably a little more than the current benchmark. Even a tenth over a whole lap can be the differences between pole and third at some races, so it's not a small difference and Red Bull will be sure to exploit it if they have been given the green light by the FIA.

Do you have a link to say the FIA have stopped looking at this?

Edit: I've seen it now. I'd stopped following. Was just hoping the FIA didn't make us redesign. I didn't think they would as bit would potentially ruin some of the close racing.

A bit of a reiteration of what I wrote on the RedBull thread, but this was all a "desperate" attempt by RedBull to try and take some advantage away from competitors.

This is not an area which is hard to take advantage of, and pretty much all teams do it. The problem with RedBull is that since 2022, their front wings have been visibly less loaded compared to competitors.

It is part of their design philosophy, and it's not so easy to change mid-season because a higher loaded front wing messes with the balance.

RedBull front wing flexes just as much, from a material standpoint. Their front wing shape however, has the flaps at a lower angle of attack. Especially compared to McLaren. That's partly why the flexing is emphasized when comparing the two.

[MTudor]

So Lando got pole on my mo's birthday

[mwillems]

It was already cleared by the FIA. Everything is in compliance with the rules :

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... /10625891/

It's the people here that took Marko's words and blew them out of proportion.

it wasn't blown out of proportion. One of two things became inevitable. Teams were either going to have to change their wings, or Red Bull will be bringing a wing that will flex to an amount probably a little more than the current benchmark. Even a tenth over a whole lap can be the differences between pole and third at some races, so it's not a small difference and Red Bull will be sure to exploit it if they have been given the green light by the FIA.

Do you have a link to say the FIA have stopped looking at this?

Edit: I've seen it now. I'd stopped following. Was just hoping the FIA didn't make us redesign. I didn't think they would as bit would potentially ruin some of the close racing.

A bit of a reiteration of what I wrote on the RedBull thread, but this was all a "desperate" attempt by RedBull to try and take some advantage away from competitors.

This is not an area which is hard to take advantage of, and pretty much all teams do it. The problem with RedBull is that since 2022, their front wings have been visibly less loaded compared to competitors.

It is part of their design philosophy, and it's not so easy to change mid-season because a higher loaded front wing messes with the balance.

RedBull front wing flexes just as much, from a material standpoint. Their front wing shape however, has the flaps at a lower angle of attack. Especially compared to McLaren. That's partly why the flexing is emphasized when comparing the two.

it depends how it flexes. At low speeds this may not be an issue at all and help the balance. At faster speeds it may well maintain the balance.

I feel though, that what they can and can't do is an assumption we cannot be qualified to make. I think it is clear though that there can definitely be a benefit for them here. And that benefit can easily be a chunk of time that will push them regularly back to 1st. So I don't agree that it isn't an important moment.

For all I know, they asked the FIA because the changes would be more extensive than just the wing and they want to be confident before going down that design route, but that they think that they can make several areas of the car work better with a flexible wing. But I'd be assuming in a direction of my choosing.

We don't know how hard or easy it is to exploit, but it is hard to deny there is time on the table that we'd rather Red Bull not get. With the gaps in these races, any time gain is consequential.