2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Watto]

First stint pace was ok, then it went downhill. Equal fast on hard tyre and then struggling again on meds. I dont understand how pace can suddenly disappear like that. These random struggles keep happening time and time again. Also slow pitstops are getting old now, few times is funny but now not so much anymore. Ferrari would instantly be thrown under the bus for this stuff (clown pitwall and all that), and yet here it's seemingly tolerated. It happened now too many times in crucial moments.

Quali and first stint gave a vastly deceiving impression on mclarens actual pace. Norris and piastri bottled it in Q, while verstappen was flying and again made the car look (much) better than it is. Real difference was probably around a tenth as it was in SQ but mclarens vastly superior tyre management again made it actual best race car on sunday.

I wonder how much the gear issue caused later in the race or if it was resolved?

There was a convo between Max and GP Max said something like You need to tell me what do do e 7th gear' A bit later 'something like Strat 6 please Max to what Max responded with a 'No'.

Hard to tell if it was a non issue or not at the end.

[Xyz22]

First stint pace was ok, then it went downhill. Equal fast on hard tyre and then struggling again on meds. I dont understand how pace can suddenly disappear like that. These random struggles keep happening time and time again. Also slow pitstops are getting old now, few times is funny but now not so much anymore. Ferrari would instantly be thrown under the bus for this stuff (clown pitwall and all that), and yet here it's seemingly tolerated. It happened now too many times in crucial moments.

Quali and first stint gave a vastly deceiving impression on mclarens actual pace. Norris and piastri bottled it in Q, while verstappen was flying and again made the car look (much) better than it is. Real difference was probably around a tenth as it was in SQ but mclarens vastly superior tyre management again made it actual best race car on sunday.

RB is stronger with full fuel. McLaren probably can't push as hard due to tyres overheating, but the issue is maybe less critical the more they burn fuel. To me it doesn't seem that McLaren is that better in terms of tyre management, at least this race. Maybe in the second stint Lando managed the tyres a bit better but he was just plain faster in the last stint which was just started so either Max was not pushing hard because of expected deg or McLaren was simply faster with less fuel after the adjustments they made post Sprint Race.

When was the last slow pit stop they made?

[BanMeToo]

There was a convo between Max and GP Max said something like You need to tell me what do do e 7th gear' A bit later 'something like Strat 6 please Max to what Max responded with a 'No'.

I am also curious about the 7th gear thing. The later message which he said 'no' to was, 'mid [diff] 6 if you prefer'.

[AR3-GP]

First stint pace was ok, then it went downhill. Equal fast on hard tyre and then struggling again on meds. I dont understand how pace can suddenly disappear like that.

A casual observation of mine is that Red Bull never runs race simulations with the average fuel load. They only run full fuel load race sims. And where are they strong...full fuel load....

The others run much less fuel in their race sims in FP. Where are they strong? When fuel is lighter...

It can't be this simple.

[AR3-GP]

To me it doesn't seem that McLaren is that better in terms of tyre management,

Imola. Spain. Even the SF23 had better tire deg at Las Vegas and Mexico last year.

[Watto]

There was a convo between Max and GP Max said something like You need to tell me what do do e 7th gear' A bit later 'something like Strat 6 please Max to what Max responded with a 'No'.

I am also curious about the 7th gear thing. The later message which he said 'no' to was, 'mid [diff] 6 if you prefer'.

Ah right, was working off memory, Just wondering what the issue was

[Dunlay]

First stint pace was ok, then it went downhill. Equal fast on hard tyre and then struggling again on meds. I dont understand how pace can suddenly disappear like that.

A casual observation of mine is that Red Bull never runs race simulations with the average fuel load. They only run full fuel load race sims. And where are they strong...full fuel load....

The others run much less fuel in their race sims in FP. Where are they strong? When fuel is lighter...

It can't be this simple.

In this regulations set, Red Bull have built a car with a predominant bias towards the race and more specifically towards the full race fuel load. It has helped so far. It allowed Max to to pull away at the start and have a leisurely Sunday. That's why the qualifying margin has generally been low to the extent that Max had to fight hard to get the pole and when he did, it was with small margins so far. It's also why Perez usually has done so bad in qualifying. His races were ok until early this year.

Now the situation seems to have changed. Their last "downgrade" and the ever upgrading McLaren has become a genuine threat. More specifically from the mid point in race when the fuel level goes down, McLaren becomes a bit faster than Red Bull. This has been a trend now. I don't see a quick solution coming to RB20 due their last downgrade conundrum. The best possible set-up was achieved this past Sunday and yet, we saw what we saw. Situation might get worse if McLaren and Mercedes brings decent upgrades at Silverstone and Red Bull doesn't. Red Bull is struggling with lesser development time and lost development budget due to Perez's crashes.

[AR3-GP]

Something that went unnoticed is that after giving Max a 6.5 second stop, they gave Perez an 8 second stop on the next lap. It could be an equipment issue.

[Sevach]

Something that went unnoticed is that after giving Max a 6.5 second stop, they gave Perez an 8 second stop on the next lap. It could be an equipment issue.

Perez had a 5s penalty, considering teams always delay a bit once it's "free to work" it was a good stop.

[AR3-GP]

Something that went unnoticed is that after giving Max a 6.5 second stop, they gave Perez an 8 second stop on the next lap. It could be an equipment issue.

Perez had a 5s penalty, considering teams always delay a bit once it's "free to work" it was a good stop.

Okay I see. thank you.

[Sergej]

some thoughts that sleep brought me

I'm not sure deg was bad yesterday, ok it was not class of the field, but without lapped cars in the fuc*ing way and botched pitstop Max would have started the last stint with 8s, which is perfectly good (forget about 2023 gap, we won't enjoy anymore that kind of advantage), Lando would have had a hard time first in closing the gap and then starting to prepare his divebomb attacks, the problem is that in last stint the pace simply was not there since the beginning, for whatever reason, used medium, practice done mainly on full tank (but can you criticize them for this ? first stint is when you have to pull out of DRS range without burning the tyres); hoperfully they can find answers to this last stint problem which seems a trend now, anyway if deg IS the problem, then Silverstone won't be good

in general I think that weekend execution was not good, starting from the choice of saving two hard instead of two medium (only top team to do this), the pitstop of course, and the silence about Lando's coming penalty, why tf they didn't inform him ? I can't help but think that had they told Max that Lando was about to get a penalty, all of this show wouldn't have happened

anyway, another weekend which by the end seemed heading to a point loss, ended up with a point gain; well, Max maybe didn't emerge as a "winner", he got a ton of critics, "old Max" bs spreading again, but haters gonna hate I guess, so who cares.

[Xyz22]

To me it doesn't seem that McLaren is that better in terms of tyre management,

Imola. Spain. Even the SF23 had better tire deg at Las Vegas and Mexico last year.

I meant this race.

[venkyhere]

some thoughts that sleep brought me

I'm not sure deg was bad yesterday, ok it was not class of the field, but without lapped cars in the fuc*ing way and botched pitstop Max would have started the last stint with 8s, which is perfectly good (forget about 2023 gap, we won't enjoy anymore that kind of advantage), the problem is that in last stint the pace simply was not there since the beginning, for whatever reason, used medium, practice done mainly on full tank (but can you criticize them for this ? first stint is when you have to pull out of DRS range without burning the tyres); hoperfully they can find answers to this last stint problem which seems a trend now, anyway if deg IS the problem, then Silverstone won't be good

in general I think that weekend execution was not good, starting from the choice of saving two hard instead of two medium (only top team to do this), the pitstop of course, and the silence about Lando's coming penalty, why tf they didn't inform him ? I can't help but think that had they told Max that Lando was about to get a penalty, all of this show wouldn't have happened

anyway, another weekend which by the end seemed heading to a point loss, ended up with a point gain; well, Max maybe didn't emerge as a "winner", he got a ton of critics, "old Max" bs spreading again, but haters gonna hate I guess, so who cares.

Deg was indeed bad for RB20 yesterday. What confuses me even more is the explanation for the 'setup-change' between Sprint and Quali, made by Marko+Horner - "it was for race pace".

The notion that it's the aero-imposed stiff suspension that causes accelerated tyre wear, seems more likely, with every passing race.

Full tank fuel + aero load => the total pre-loading in the springs is keeping the tyres happy when subjected to varying impacts from the road - bumps, dips and kerbs. The moment fuel load is removed, the total preloading becomes lesser and springs are way too stiff to keep the tyres happy in relation to the varying impacts from the load => glaringly evident in slow speed ckts like Monaco, the chicane kerbs in Imola/Canada etc - tyres aren't pressed back enough into the ground during rebound, even resulting in actual bouncing ("jumping like kangaroo"). This doesn't affect in high speed corners even if kerb riding is involved, as the pre-loading is back to necessary levels thanks to the aero-press at high speed.

And because the stiffness of suspension is imposed due to floor design and ride -height windows, this might not be something that can be solved by 'development' - this very likely is a baked-in limitation coming from the RB19-->RB20 design change.

Just a theory.

[Dunlay]

I don't know why people keep claiming Max wasn't informed about Lando's impending penalty. The penalty wasn't communicated yet by the time they crashed. Lando was under investigation. But here is the team radio between Max and GP a few laps before that.

Max: "He overtook me outside the track"
GP: "He already had black & white flags. He already had black & white flags Max."
Max: "Yeah, that's 5 second penalty then. It should be clear."
GP: "Just head down mate, head down."
Max: "Yeah, I know, come on.

[basti313]

I don't know why people keep claiming Max wasn't informed about Lando's impending penalty.

Well, it does not matter, right? Even if the penalty was already clear, there was enough laps and enough pace on the McLaren to not stick with him within 5sec.