Flexiwings 2024

[peewon]

I'm certain I can find evidence of most teams on the grid doing something similar. Every single team has a flexing front wing (as much as Red Bull want us to believe otherwise). Here is an example of Ferrari also doing similar things. Calling Mercedes out has having ideas that are legal and allowed first seems harsh, they have one of the best design teams on the grid, of course they are going to push the boundaries of what is legal, and they ARE legal. If they weren't the FIA would ban them, much like they have done in the past with DAS, oil burning etc. It's easy to find evidence to fit your narrative because all the teams on the grid try this stuff, we just hear less about it from bottom teams because it doesn't really impact the championship in anyway, and they generally don't have the capacity or tools to develop grey area aerodynamics.

Ferrari copied Mercedes for that. The rear wing AM made was also legal. It was specifically outlawed on the basis of it creating turbulent air and thus violating the 'spirit of the regulation'. Like they came out and said this. AM's front wing last season would also pass all legality checks. The ride height fiasco was the biggest giveaway of preferential treatment. One team struggles to make their cars work and FIA sabotage their own regulations.

Plus, there has been a clear shift in penalties from 2023 onwards with much harsher ones being awarded this year. Hamilton not getting penalties in 2022 doesn't really prove anything, he's had plenty of them from the FIA over the years while driving a Mercedes.

I would buy this argument if Russell had been just as harshly penalized in Japan for divebombing Piastri and making significant contact. In fact there was no action taken. Its completely inconsistent.

The Wolff & FIA fiasco turned to the courts because the FIA handled it like a bunch of morons, not because they are in the pocket of Mercedes. The issue wasn't that the FIA said they would "look into it", but that they did so with zero communication to Wolff, or other F1 parties. All the F1 teams even made a statement in support of this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68615850

Again Mercedes didnt go after FIA, they went after one person, Ben Sulayem. Its obvious to anyone with an ounce of critical thinking that they want this guy removed. Probably because hes the spanner in the works for them. Filing legal action over a nothing 2 day "we'll look into it" process doesnt make any sense. If anyone she should have been mad at the tabloid. There is absolutely no mention of anything that the FIA did thats egregious. Just vague ranting to create the desired headlines. This is why his past statements were also brought up. To drum up public sentiment for hi removal.

Remember when Toto knew exactly how many teams were going to be punished in the cost cap scandal before any official news? These guys are in balls deep with the FIA.

[SiLo]

Ferrari copied Mercedes for that. The rear wing AM made was also legal. It was specifically outlawed on the basis of it creating turbulent air and thus violating the 'spirit of the regulation'. Like they came out and said this. AM's front wing last season would also pass all legality checks. The ride height fiasco was the biggest giveaway of preferential treatment. One team struggles to make their cars work and FIA sabotage their own regulations.

The ride height fiasco supported by multiple teams and drivers? You're just regurgitating what the press smashed into everyone's faces for weeks because it was easy clicks and generated rage induced engagement.

I would buy this argument if Russell had been just as harshly penalized in Japan for divebombing Piastri and making significant contact. In fact there was no action taken. Its completely inconsistent.

The Stewards being inconsistent has been a thing for years, you will find hundreds of posts about it on this very forum.

Again Mercedes didnt go after FIA, they went after one person, Ben Sulayem. Its obvious to anyone with an ounce of critical thinking that they want this guy removed. Probably because hes the spanner in the works for them. Filing legal action over a nothing 2 day "we'll look into it" process doesnt make any sense. If anyone she should have been mad at the tabloid. There is absolutely no mention of anything that the FIA did thats egregious. Just vague ranting to create the desired headlines. This is why his past statements were also brought up. To drum up public sentiment for hi removal.

Wolff not liking BS is well know, but it's not like BS is doing wonders for this sport. Whether Wolff is acting specifically in his own self interest or at least, some of the sport is yet to be seen, but BS has not been a good appointment (see here). Their response to the FIA launching an investigation with no communication was fair. Trivialising it by calling it a "nothing 2 day we will look into it process" is wide of the mark.

Remember when Toto knew exactly how many teams were going to be punished in the cost cap scandal before any official news? These guys are in balls deep with the FIA.

A Team Principle knowing information that the public are not privvy to? Colour me shocked. I believe Zak Brown also made allusions to this but I notice you didn't include him either.

I won't respond anymore, your bias is clear.

[Rikhart]

[PlatinumZealot]

This thread is nothing compared to 2011. I know the regulations barely allow any flamboyant car designs othe than the side pods , but you guys are really nitpicking now.

[chrisc90]

We need to discuss the changes Merc did to that wing 3-4 races ago...

[KimiRai]

We need to discuss the changes Merc did to that wing 3-4 races ago...

Or Aston this weekend

[majki2111]

I might be boring, but nevertheless I'll still ask. Regarding this concept of flexiwings. I asked something similar 1 year ago. Do teams use some kind of plots when designing this stuff. We in faculty learnt regular stress-strain plots when describing a material.

Maybe something with flexural strength in relation to certain parameter. Are they maybe using degrees of deflection in relation to speed or acceleration? I didn't study aero stuff so I don't know any relations regarding that field.

Would someone with masters degree in material engineering and no experience in autosport industry be able to understood what they are doing with this phenomena?

[majki2111]

This thread is nothing compared to 2011. I know the regulations barely allow any flamboyant car designs othe than the side pods , but you guys are really nitpicking now.

I was thinking the same thing. I remember 2011 was also something about flexing front wings. I was 14 years old back then. What was purpose of those wings? I remember something about generating Y250 vortex, am I right? Is it the similar now?

[Watto]

I might be boring, but nevertheless I'll still ask. Regarding this concept of flexiwings. I asked something similar 1 year ago. Do teams use some kind of plots when designing this stuff. We in faculty learnt regular stress-strain plots when describing a material.

Maybe something with flexural strength in relation to certain parameter. Are they maybe using degrees of deflection in relation to speed or acceleration? I didn't study aero stuff so I don't know any relations regarding that field.

Would someone with masters degree in material engineering and no experience in autosport industry be able to understood what they are doing with this phenomena?

From memory - and there are probably better people to answer this. - a lot had to do with how they layered the carbon fiber. The sheeds have (or can have?) a grain a bit like wood where is flexes, laying it in certain ways can create flex under the right conditions depending on how the layer it all together if that makes sense. Probably an under simplification but think thats the jist of it,

So I would say yes someone with those kinds of qualifications could understand what is happening - as I know it anyway.

[Tommy Cookers]

that sounds like what you can ...
read all about in any description of the X 29 (airplane)
tailored elasticity
(as in bias cut tailoring)

or look for the original threads on this site

[KimiRai]

Silverstone AM front wing

[AR3-GP]

To my eye, even the mainplane with the "Cognizant" written on it is twisting back and reducing AoA.

[Waz]

That doesn't even look excessive on the AM. I was expecting a bit more of twist to simulate the outwash bend from last year.

The question regarding plot points was really interesting to me. The only thing ever discussed has been the direction of layup on the carbon. But I have worked in manufacturing with carbon fibre, and I can't understand how that makes such a big difference, so more information on how CF flexes and maintains rigidity would be awesome

[Tommy Cookers]

.... The only thing ever discussed has been the direction of layup on the carbon. But I have worked in manufacturing with carbon fibre, and I can't understand how that makes such a big difference, so more information on how CF flexes and maintains rigidity would be awesome

https://aerospaceengineeringblog.com/ae ... mman-x-29/

[TFSA]

To my eye, even the mainplane with the "Cognizant" written on it is twisting back and reducing AoA.

That's expected though. There's always gonna be some flex. It's not the mainplane that's the concern here. The biggest flex is always going to happen on the upper elements of the wing, because those are only loosely connected in comparison, but they also have a higher AoA - so that's where you can get the largest drag reduction with flex.