2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[yooogurt]

What? 8 points are a lot for Ferrari and Leclerc right now. That's the current reality of the situation.

By the way, I just looked at Charles' radio, and it's weird, Charles didn't want to go at first, but in the end it was his decision.

[yooogurt]

But why was Adami telling Carlos that the rain would stop in two laps?
How come the race engineers give the drivers different information?

[Xyz22]

But why was Adami telling Carlos that the rain would stop in two laps?
How come the race engineers give the drivers different information?

I have no idea. Communication clearly wasn't good.

In any event, i suggest checking lap times. The gap to Mercedes was massive, guys... More than i expected...

[yooogurt]

In any event, i suggest checking lap times. The gap to Mercedes was massive, guys... More than i expected...

I don't think it will be the same from here on, it was somehow very surprising to see the Mercedes get away from Max at the start of the race, when in the races before Max was king of the first stint and had the best pace with no chance for the others, we have to wait for Hungary or it could be a false start

[LM10]

But why was Adami telling Carlos that the rain would stop in two laps?
How come the race engineers give the drivers different information?

I have no idea. Communication clearly wasn't good.

In any event, i suggest checking lap times. The gap to Mercedes was massive, guys... More than i expected...

I’ve checked the lap times. You’re right.
We should do something about it. We can’t keep it as a secret and should tell Ferrari.

In the meantime I’ve started working on an upgrade package which will solve the porpoising. Reading in this thread in the last couple of months has taught me very useful things in aerodynamics.

I’ll mail my solutions to Ferrari pretty soon in order for them to get it ready for Hungary. Stay tuned and see you there.

Btw., in my mail to Ferrari I’ll also add that Bryan is no better than Xavi (which I learned in this thread as well) and that they should hire someone from this thread instead. Please get in touch with me whoever is interested in an application so I can tell them.

[bluechris]

In any event, i suggest checking lap times. The gap to Mercedes was massive, guys... More than i expected...

I don't think it will be the same from here on, it was somehow very surprising to see the Mercedes get away from Max at the start of the race, when in the races before Max was king of the first stint and had the best pace with no chance for the others, we have to wait for Hungary or it could be a false start

I was not surprised. Silverstone is super flat and they were able to bring the car total down scratching everywhere. This is not the case for the next races.

[jambuka]

In any event, i suggest checking lap times. The gap to Mercedes was massive, guys... More than i expected...

I don't think it will be the same from here on, it was somehow very surprising to see the Mercedes get away from Max at the start of the race, when in the races before Max was king of the first stint and had the best pace with no chance for the others, we have to wait for Hungary or it could be a false start

I was not surprised. Silverstone is super flat and they were able to bring the car total down scratching everywhere. This is not the case for the next races.

Also cold weather, Mercedes works really well in cold wet conditions.

[codetower]

But why was Adami telling Carlos that the rain would stop in two laps?
How come the race engineers give the drivers different information?

And on Lap 20/21, Charles says he's destroying the tyres. He asks Bryan to keep him updated on the weather and he tells him "in 3 laps". I don't think others started pitting till about 7 laps later.

But why was Adami telling Carlos that the rain would stop in two laps?
How come the race engineers give the drivers different information?

I have no idea. Communication clearly wasn't good.

In any event, i suggest checking lap times. The gap to Mercedes was massive, guys... More than i expected...

I’ve checked the lap times. You’re right.
We should do something about it. We can’t keep it as a secret and should tell Ferrari.

In the meantime I’ve started working on an upgrade package which will solve the porpoising. Reading in this thread in the last couple of months has taught me very useful things in aerodynamics.

I’ll mail my solutions to Ferrari pretty soon in order for them to get it ready for Hungary. Stay tuned and see you there.

Btw., in my mail to Ferrari I’ll also add that Bryan is no better than Xavi (which I learned in this thread as well) and that they should hire someone from this thread instead. Please get in touch with me whoever is interested in an application so I can tell them.

And while you're at it, tell them Vasseur is no better than Binotto as well.

[ScuderiaLeo]

I remember watching Vettel become less and less enthused as the years went by. He made his own mistakes sometimes I'll admit that, but the tensions between him and the team also continued to grow as he felt like they let him down. I worry the same thing will happen to Leclerc. Whether or not he was the cause of his own issues in this race, he felt like they gave him wrong information and this will nag at him in the future as well.

BTW, I saw Andrea Stella acknowledge after today's race that the team should take more responsibility when it comes to asking the drivers to make strategic decisions. Ferrari might need this memo too. Leclerc was told it would rain next lap, what was he supposed to do, say "no, it's not going to rain?" The more I think about it, the more I believe painting this as Leclerc's fault is unfair. He was working with the information he had at the time, which is that the rain would be heavy for the next 10 laps and he needed to pit. The team did not give him the option of extending, they could've just said "we don't see rain for another few laps, try to just keep it on the track until we can pit."

But I digress. I'm very curious what they'll do about this car. Sainz's interview made it sound like they were confident in bringing it back for Hungary.

[jambuka]

I remember watching Vettel become less and less enthused as the years went by. He made his own mistakes sometimes I'll admit that, but the tensions between him and the team also continued to grow as he felt like they let him down. I worry the same thing will happen to Leclerc. Whether or not he was the cause of his own issues in this race, he felt like they gave him wrong information and this will nag at him in the future as well.

BTW, I saw Andrea Stella acknowledge after today's race that the team should take more responsibility when it comes to asking the drivers to make strategic decisions. Ferrari might need this memo too. Leclerc was told it would rain next lap, what was he supposed to do, say "no, it's not going to rain?" The more I think about it, the more I believe painting this as Leclerc's fault is unfair. He was working with the information he had at the time, which is that the rain would be heavy for the next 10 laps and he needed to pit. The team did not give him the option of extending, they could've just said "we don't see rain for another few laps, try to just keep it on the track until we can pit."

But I digress. I'm very curious what they'll do about this car. Sainz's interview made it sound like they were confident in bringing it back for Hungary.

What would be important is if they can still find the expected 0.3 gain that they have been saying without bouncing with the current suspension layout.

[ScuderiaLeo]

What would be important is if they can still find the expected 0.3 gain that they have been saying without bouncing with the current suspension layout.

Maybe they can gain a tenth or two, but I don't think the bouncing will ever completely go away which means they'll never extract the "full" potential of the package. They've had three works to work on this and they've tried so many different setups. Perhaps it'll be better for Hungary, I'm sure they're going to use this weekend's information to re-evaluate the simulator, but a whole three tenths? That's a lot...

I'm also not convinced 2025 with the new suspension/chassis will be the solution either like some suggest. The paws of the SF-24's development will still be all over next year's car, it's not like they're making an entirely new car. They'll "fix" the suspension but then they'll find new problems that other teams discovered years ago. And most of the new staff Vasseur is bringing in will be working on the 2026 car, not 2025, so I presume they're splitting development which will only slow things down. I hope I'm wrong and there is some miracle fix in the works, but logic tells me otherwise.

[Watto]

I remember watching Vettel become less and less enthused as the years went by. He made his own mistakes sometimes I'll admit that, but the tensions between him and the team also continued to grow as he felt like they let him down. I worry the same thing will happen to Leclerc. Whether or not he was the cause of his own issues in this race, he felt like they gave him wrong information and this will nag at him in the future as well.

BTW, I saw Andrea Stella acknowledge after today's race that the team should take more responsibility when it comes to asking the drivers to make strategic decisions. Ferrari might need this memo too. Leclerc was told it would rain next lap, what was he supposed to do, say "no, it's not going to rain?" The more I think about it, the more I believe painting this as Leclerc's fault is unfair. He was working with the information he had at the time, which is that the rain would be heavy for the next 10 laps and he needed to pit. The team did not give him the option of extending, they could've just said "we don't see rain for another few laps, try to just keep it on the track until we can pit."

But I digress. I'm very curious what they'll do about this car. Sainz's interview made it sound like they were confident in bringing it back for Hungary.

Feels like it there are a lot of elements of Ferrari in recent times in all this, poor or indecisive pit calls. But in season car development has been an issue back for years, it hurt Vettel I think a often enough, where Merc out developed them, in 2022, RBR did, this year again it seems their development path has been a little off their closes competitors, hopefully Fred can sort it out before too long.

[CaribouBread]

bla bla bla

Sainz uses colors, Leclerc uses class # to communicate intensity. Could've looked at the transcript before typing all that.
You can call Leclerc stupid or whatever, he doesn't seem to be the brightest but no need to make stuff up. Stop inventing.

[Sphere3758]

This! I’ve tried really hard to stay positive and not vent, but I can’t. I was just rewatching the race on f1tv listening to the onboards, Charles’ side of the garage is incompetent. Not sure if its miscommunication or something else. Verstappen’s team tells him that the “target is to try to survive this pocket of rain”, carlos’ side barely mentions rain, talking sector colors “yellow sector 3, cyan sector 1” etc. Leclerc gets “We expect heavy rain now, it’s going to happen soon”. Yeah, I would box for inters now.

How they keep the driver who is committed to, and you’ve committed to, the next 4-5 years with this group is beyond me.

Detail like this isn't something that comes out of the blue. Drivers and engineers must discuss exactly how they want to communicate during different scenarios. It's part of being an effective driver. Sainz has always been intelligent in this area and it comes as no surprise that he micro-manages the communication with Adami to make sure Adam only communicates in a way that is useful to him.

Compare this with Leclerc. I saw a funny comment elsewhere. A lot of people changed around Leclerc (Rueda, Xavi, Binotto, teammates, and more) but the same outcome keeps reoccurring on Leclerc's side in any kind of mixed condition races. Everyone keeps blaming the team, but Sainz and Vettel worked with the same team. At some point you have to stop ridiculing the team. There's something, perhaps a level of preparation, that Leclerc isn't doing.

Maybe he just assumes he doesn't have to prepare anything and that the engineer can just "wing it" on Sunday, but for Sainz it appears as the opposite. Adami is describing specific sectors of the circuit in colors of the rainbow . It is naive to think this is a coincidence. It isn't. Adami and Sainz prepared this detail. It is impressive to see. The difference in how the two garages communicate is stark and it is the responsibility of the driver to control this. Not enough credit is given to Sainz for optimizing the communications with his engineer. Leclerc seemingly has no plan, no codewords, and allows Bozzi and Xavi to talk to him in useless ways. People look at it and slam the team, but they don't see how much work Sainz has done with Adami to better their chances of success. Colors of the rainbow at 300km/h. What a system!

You are giving Sainz way too much of credit here. It is just that Adami is the best race engineer at Ferrari with a lot of experience in such situations and Carlos was lucky to inherit Vettel’s side of the garage.

The colors of the rainbow is a meaningless detail. A lot of other engineers did not describe the track that way and the drivers did fine. The problem for Charles was the miscommunication on the intensity of the rain, no denying that.

[Sphere3758]

I still feel we are completely ignoring the elephant in the room. Charles Leclerc on slick tyres when it starts to rain.

This is not the first time and has been a pattern at least since last year. It is possible that the few such events have happened when he has not been comfortable with the car, but he seems to REALLY struggle in comparison to the rest.

Yesterday, it is possible he basically copied Sainz’s setup for the race which made him uncomfortable in the rain, but I still wouldn’t expect him to struggle so much.

He lost like 7 seconds behind Carlos in 3 laps making the early pit stop inevitable


Edit: I reviewed that part of the race and I was perhaps a bit too harsh on him. Max was clearly struggling at that time too and the lap times clearly were influenced by the section of the track you were on as the rain hit.