2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Dee]

Important race upgrade wise for Red Bull and Aston in Hungary

This upgrade is going to decide whether Max stays or leaves for Mercedes next year.

I wonder if Marko has put the same back door deal into GP's and Hannah's/Will's contract.

Would like them to leave with him if they can.

[Dee]

Usually I tend not to believe conspiracy theories, but that rumour about checks on suspension in Miami...

Care to elaborate? I'm out of the loop.

I read some rumours about checks the FIA made on RB20 rear suspension in Miami and found something they didn't like, some rumours were even more detailed but I don't remember because I tend not to give importance to these kind of reports; I stress that it was only rumours spread by few sources, but still

No written sources have said it, Just a comment by a member here with no links to anything official. In Miami, Mclaren were faster than RB in the last stint as has been the case since the new upgrade. If something was found on RB, it would have been in China and not Imola. Not one single reason to believe anything.

[AR3-GP]

The problem with the nonsense suspension theory is that many of the characteristics which are failing Red Bull currently were observed before Miami.

In the rain in Chinese GP sprint qualy, the car was simply useless, just like this weekend.

The car had problems in Australia.

Even going back to 2023, there were races with excessive tire degradation (Jeddah, Las Vegas, Mexico among others) for those who still looked at trends when Red Bull was getting 1-2s. Singapore was a disaster with the bumps. They recently sent Max to Imola to drive the RB18 to give him a reference. If the answer was simply that they removed a suspension system, they would not be driving the RB18. Also, a suspension change like this could not be done within a season.

Then you have the matter of engineers leaving for rival teams each year. Something like this wouldn't survive in secrecy for 3 years.

[stonehenge]

The problem with the nonsense suspension theory is that many of the characteristics which are failing Red Bull currently were observed before Miami.

In the rain in Chinese GP sprint qualy, the car was simply useless, just like this weekend.

The car had problems in Australia.

Even going back to 2023, there were races with excessive tire degradation (Jeddah, Las Vegas, Mexico among others) for those who still looked at trends when Red Bull was getting 1-2s. Singapore was a disaster with the bumps. They recently sent Max to Imola to drive the RB18 to give him a reference. If the answer was simply that they removed a suspension system, they would not be driving the RB18. Also, a suspension change like this could not be done within a season.

Yeah you're spot on. They were also perhaps flattered early in the season by all of their rivals struggling severely. I think it's understandable that teams like Red Bull are starting to see diminishing returns, especially with this set of regs, but it's not really like Red Bull has a flawless car that they just can't improve upon anymore. The car has a shocking (for their own admittedly very high bar) number of areas where it just lacks outright speed. IMO they NEED to bring a good upgrade soon or they risk falling behind further. Verstappen's quali excellence is what has saved them in the last few races, and McLaren's incompetence in this one. But if the trajectory stays even close to what it is now, then those things won't save them after the summer break, especially when we're back on street circuits. Great for the sport if you ask me, but still surprising to see them struggle this much with their car.

[venkyhere]

Overachieved a result that wasn't deserving of the car's performance.

Low track temps, greasy with light showers - on M
+
wet track from moderate showers - on Inters

exposed the Achilles heel - super stiff suspension, compared to the other 3 of the top 4 teams.

It will be copium to think that somehow car was fine on light fuel in last stint. It was because the track was green and the H on a low temp track will come alive if thrashed from outlap itself. Car was no good, team strategy calls and driver saved the day.

Singapore GP is a writeoff , wouldn't be surprised if no points even. Because RB20 is far stiffer than RB19 already was

[K1Plus]

The Hungarian GP is crucial for the team to be honest. Mercedes are also bringing upgrades there.

[Vettel165]

I am not worried yet, they probably didnt found the right setup again. And rain in free practice was a major issue. Red Bull needs more time to fine-tune the car than Mclaren, its like a Mercedes diva back in 2017. Also they had to test new parts. We are usually pretty bad in low-temp conditions. I know it looks bad now, but in Austria Red Bull in Max hands was very quick, dont take the last stint into account. He would have won it, if they didnt make a mistake when changing tyres. The pace in first stint was very good then. I think time is needed to finally unlock full potential of the car. Red Bull as a team is usually amazing in terms of in-season development. We have to survive until the summer break, and then all could be well again. Spa on paper looks very good with medium-high speed corners, Hungary less because of kerbs. But it will be probably very hot, which should help the car with more grip. Fingers crossed, it was an amazing damage limitation today. And thats the key, we gained some points on Lando. Fantastic work by Max.

[AR3-GP]

I agree that they were hindered a lot by the wet FP3. This means it's probably not as bad as it looks. The car isn't lacking downforce. It's lacking balance. This is masked over 1 lap on softs but generally there is an inherent understeer which has been there and rearing it's head from time to time since 2022.

Hungary update needs to be 3 tenths.

[Juzh]

its like a Mercedes diva back in 2017.

This thought crossed my mind as well, however this car is x5 of the amount.

[organic]

I agree that they were hindered a lot by the wet FP3. This means it's probably not as bad as it looks. The car isn't lacking downforce. It's lacking balance. This is masked over 1 lap on softs but generally there is an inherent understeer which has been there and rearing it's head from time to time since 2022.

Hungary update needs to be 3 tenths.

Maybe an extra tool to correct for the understeer that neither Merc nor McLaren have any problems with... Perhaps

[Juzh]

I agree that they were hindered a lot by the wet FP3. This means it's probably not as bad as it looks. The car isn't lacking downforce. It's lacking balance. This is masked over 1 lap on softs but generally there is an inherent understeer which has been there and rearing it's head from time to time since 2022.

Hungary update needs to be 3 tenths.

Yeah, pure downforce is not the problem, I believe RB20 is still the best in this area. It lacks speed 130-220 kmh corners. Flexi wings doing wonders for merc and mclaren in those ranges, able to keep AOE without causing too much drag elsewhere.

On hards verstappen was able to take as much if not more kerb in vale chicane than norris, and was in fact gaining few tenths there. In general car balance looked reasonable during last stint. I guess it's something at least.

[organic]

The front tyres immediately got way too hot and I had no grip in the slow corners with the medium, it stopped me from attacking in the fast corners, so that's why I dropped all the way back.

Need something to manage the front tyres asap

[KimiRai]

Does checo have to use softer suspensions due to not being as confident as max in kerbs etc, and that screws up the aero map of the car? Could a part of the time loss come from there?

[Sergej]

wondering what can be this mythological Budapest upgrade ?

floor ? updated in Silverstone
sidepod ? Barcelona
new front wing ? came in Imola

honestly the car went through a proper updating program, even though the laptime improvement was not massive, so I'm very curious to see what this package will include; wondering if we are not deluding ourselves after all the talk about this upgrade.

[AR3-GP]

wondering what can be this mythological Budapest upgrade ?

floor ? updated in Silverstone
sidepod ? Barcelona
new front wing ? came in Imola

honestly the car went through a proper updating program, even though the laptime improvement was not massive, so I'm very curious to see what this package will include; wondering if we are not deluding ourselves after all the talk about this upgrade.

I'm skeptical as well, but there is a filming day this week so there must be something important to verify. Mercedes brought a new front wing and a suspension revision which transformed their car. Dr Obbs insist that the "major" one has not arrived yet.