2024 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 19 - 21

[dialtone]

Ultimately, Max was frustrated because things weren't going his way today and he just tried to dive bomb Lewis using his traditional "I pass or we crash" approach. And it didn't pay off. Trying to blame anyone else isn't going to gain any traction outside of Max's hardcore fan base. The rest of F1 saw what happened and understand.

What's going to be interesting is to see whether Max adjusts his approach in such situations now that a title might be in the balance. If he doesn't, he'll only have himself to blame. Drivers like Lewis, Charles, George, etc., have nothing to lose from going in to 50/50 situations. Max does. Lewis learnt this and used to give Max room when Lewis was chasing titles and Max was an also-ran (at the time). Now that the situations are reversed, we'll see if Max has it in him to give up and take the points in such situations.

To be this is an objectively good take.

Max has 76 points lead in WDC, if he keeps driving like today he's going to lose the WDC as well as the obvious WCC loss.

The position that Max is in requires maturity, does he have it?

[Just_a_fan]

To be this is an objectively good take.

Max has 76 points lead in WDC, if he keeps driving like today he's going to lose the WDC as well as the obvious WCC loss.

The position that Max is in requires maturity, does he have it?

This is what Horner needs to be saying Max now. If they let Max carry on like this they risk losing the #1 on the car for next year. It's that simple. These situations need maturity and that didn't appear to be in evidence in the #1 car today.

[Tvetovnato]

To be this is an objectively good take.

Max has 76 points lead in WDC, if he keeps driving like today he's going to lose the WDC as well as the obvious WCC loss.

The position that Max is in requires maturity, does he have it?

This is what Horner needs to be saying Max now. If they let Max carry on like this they risk losing the #1 on the car for next year. It's that simple. These situations need maturity and that didn't appear to be in evidence in the #1 car today.

They will never ever tell him he is wrong. They are simply that afraid of losing him. Even though his psyche is the single biggest risk for the team in a close championship fight. It’s OK with a 70 point lead, but if the next season continues like it is right now, RB will be in trouble.
I sincerely hope Hamilton and the others continue to not back out ever again, so Max can keep penalizing himself. That’s the only way to get normal, incident free racing in the long run when he eventually will realize how much he himself has to pay for it.

[FittingMechanics]

Btw Verstappeb was supremely lucky in both Austria and Hungary to be able to continue after the collisions. This is about 20 points he could have easily lost.

[SKYnRacing24]

Norris throwing shade at Hamilton in the cool down room sums up why he's buddies with Max. The psychology is fascinating. Norris ONCE AGAIN has failed to capitalise on a race win. How many chances does he need to get a consistent run going, hes feeling intimidated, ego knocked for six. This is why this talk of a title charge is hyperbole, hes got oscar in the other car, A pitwall that might aswell sit on a actual wooden fence , poor starts with poor racecraft at times. Ive heard " this is the first year he's had a car to challenge " I don't give a crap, Lewis, Alonso, Max all stepped up when the opportunity arises. He's in his 6th year in F1, pissing away chances like this is quite frankly......a disgrace. Russell would not be messing about like that. He has clear racecraft on wheel to wheel battles and would of won previous races with it.

Expect to see desperate driving from Norris in Spa. Yes thats right i said it.

[chrisc90]

Norris throwing shade at Hamilton in the cool down room sums up why he's buddies with Max. The psychology is fascinating. Norris ONCE AGAIN has failed to capitalise on a race win. How many chances does he need to get a consistent run going, hes feeling intimidated, ego knocked for six. This is why this talk of a title charge is hyperbole, hes got oscar in the other car, A pitwall that might aswell sit on a actual wooden fence , poor starts with poor racecraft at times. Ive heard " this is the first year he's had a car to challenge " I don't give a crap, Lewis, Alonso, Max all stepped up when the opportunity arises. He's in his 6th year in F1, pissing away chances like this is quite frankly......a disgrace. Russell would not be messing about like that. He has clear racecraft on wheel to wheel battles and would of won previous races with it.

Expect to see desperate driving from Norris in Spa. Yes thats right i said it.

Norris should have kept P1. Dont win WDC's by throwing away points like that.

[SKYnRacing24]

Norris throwing shade at Hamilton in the cool down room sums up why he's buddies with Max. The psychology is fascinating. Norris ONCE AGAIN has failed to capitalise on a race win. How many chances does he need to get a consistent run going, hes feeling intimidated, ego knocked for six. This is why this talk of a title charge is hyperbole, hes got oscar in the other car, A pitwall that might aswell sit on a actual wooden fence , poor starts with poor racecraft at times. Ive heard " this is the first year he's had a car to challenge " I don't give a crap, Lewis, Alonso, Max all stepped up when the opportunity arises. He's in his 6th year in F1, pissing away chances like this is quite frankly......a disgrace. Russell would not be messing about like that. He has clear racecraft on wheel to wheel battles and would of won previous races with it.

Expect to see desperate driving from Norris in Spa. Yes thats right i said it.

Norris should have kept P1. Dont win WDC's by throwing away points like that.

Yep ultimately that lays with Mclaren though. They made it so unnecessary. This is why they won't win a WDC with this current mindset. WCC is game on though.

[hollus]

Chris90, after repeating like 20 times what you think HAM (potentially) did wrong in that corner...
It would be refreshing to hear you enumerate what Max (potentially) did wrong.
Because just repeating the same thing over and over again would be spam. What exactly is that line of discussion supposed to achieve, what is the end game? Everyone bending over and blaming Hamilton?

Note: I added "(potentially)" because I am still to see telemetry clearly showing Ham first braking then turning, as opposite to first turning a tiny bit and then braking, which is a MAX move "braking in a straight line". I am open to believing it when I see something clear saying that braking happened before turning.

[hollus]

I'd also like to add a philosophical point, as a member, not as a mod:

Max's plan for the corner was clearly to brake very late, be ahead at the apex and thus gain rights by being ahead at the apex. The result of trying to gain rights at the apex was a collision... before the apex. Which makes the whole point a bit meta.

Also, so far this one is aging very well:

...
That said, if Verstappen finds himself in "mild" race ending touches with Sainz one week, Lewis the next, then Oscar, then Charles, he has only himself to blame. He is reckless enough, but too adaptable to go that deep, though, IMO.

[Tvetovnato]

Norris throwing shade at Hamilton in the cool down room sums up why he's buddies with Max. The psychology is fascinating. Norris ONCE AGAIN has failed to capitalise on a race win. How many chances does he need to get a consistent run going, hes feeling intimidated, ego knocked for six. This is why this talk of a title charge is hyperbole, hes got oscar in the other car, A pitwall that might aswell sit on a actual wooden fence , poor starts with poor racecraft at times. Ive heard " this is the first year he's had a car to challenge " I don't give a crap, Lewis, Alonso, Max all stepped up when the opportunity arises. He's in his 6th year in F1, pissing away chances like this is quite frankly......a disgrace. Russell would not be messing about like that. He has clear racecraft on wheel to wheel battles and would of won previous races with it.

Expect to see desperate driving from Norris in Spa. Yes thats right i said it.

Norris should have kept P1. Dont win WDC's by throwing away points like that.

Not everyone can live happily with f**king over team mates who helped out in the past. Some have a sense of sporting fairness. If he would have been smart, he would have let Oscar past instantly and re-pass him if he could.

[Just_a_fan]

Norris throwing shade at Hamilton in the cool down room sums up why he's buddies with Max. The psychology is fascinating. Norris ONCE AGAIN has failed to capitalise on a race win. How many chances does he need to get a consistent run going, hes feeling intimidated, ego knocked for six. This is why this talk of a title charge is hyperbole, hes got oscar in the other car, A pitwall that might aswell sit on a actual wooden fence , poor starts with poor racecraft at times. Ive heard " this is the first year he's had a car to challenge " I don't give a crap, Lewis, Alonso, Max all stepped up when the opportunity arises. He's in his 6th year in F1, pissing away chances like this is quite frankly......a disgrace. Russell would not be messing about like that. He has clear racecraft on wheel to wheel battles and would of won previous races with it.

Expect to see desperate driving from Norris in Spa. Yes thats right i said it.

Norris was petulant in the cool down room (both with Lewis and in his actions) and then on the podium where he ignored Piastri and sprayed champagne at the team rep and Lewis.

Norris is increasingly coming across as a spoilt brat.

[Just_a_fan]

Norris throwing shade at Hamilton in the cool down room sums up why he's buddies with Max. The psychology is fascinating. Norris ONCE AGAIN has failed to capitalise on a race win. How many chances does he need to get a consistent run going, hes feeling intimidated, ego knocked for six. This is why this talk of a title charge is hyperbole, hes got oscar in the other car, A pitwall that might aswell sit on a actual wooden fence , poor starts with poor racecraft at times. Ive heard " this is the first year he's had a car to challenge " I don't give a crap, Lewis, Alonso, Max all stepped up when the opportunity arises. He's in his 6th year in F1, pissing away chances like this is quite frankly......a disgrace. Russell would not be messing about like that. He has clear racecraft on wheel to wheel battles and would of won previous races with it.

Expect to see desperate driving from Norris in Spa. Yes thats right i said it.

Norris should have kept P1. Dont win WDC's by throwing away points like that.

It's a team sport. If the team had agreed in the morning briefing about how priorities would play out in the race and both drivers agreed, then that's what they should stick to. Indeed, on the radio, the race engineer mentioned the Sunday morning meetings so it was obviously something they discuss between the drivers. Norris might need Piastri later in the season - he won't want to be fighting his team mate and Max at the same time.

And you can win titles whilst still being a decent person. Lewis gave the place back to Valtteri in Hungary as agreed - although Valtteri didn't make it easy by being so far back.

[Just_a_fan]

Not everyone can live happily with f**king over team mates who helped out in the past. Some have a sense of sporting fairness. If he would have been smart, he would have let Oscar past instantly and re-pass him if he could.

That would have been the sensible approach - let him by and then race him. The team would be harder placed to say "keep station" if Norris were faster than Piastri and someone was closing fast behind them who might take the win off them.

[chrisc90]

Chris33, after repeating like 20 times what you think HAM (potentially) did wrong...
It would be refreshing to hear you enumerate what Max (potentially) did wrong.
Because just repeating the same thing over and over again would be spam. What exactly is that line of discussion supposed to achieve, what is the end game? Everyone bending over and blaming Hamilton?

Note: I added "(potentially)" because I am still to see telemetry clearly showing Ham first braking then turning, as opposite to first turning a tiny bit and then braking, which is a MAX move "braking in a straight line". I am open to believing it when I see something clear saying that braking happened before turning.

I guess you mean me....not that I am chris33 for a start

I think I explained it enough. Pointless going round in circles as your clearly on a "mod mode" there so even if I do elaborate - you will only dish out warnings for 'spamming/trolling a point'. Lets face it, my posts weren't exactly all about the same thing, and any point countered by other users has been made with videos to back up my point.

Both did slightly wrong, I believe the situation was escalated by Lewis moving over under the braking. Had that not happened then Max may not have locked up. But pointless dealing in hypotheticals. As the point just goes round and round. If Lewis had stayed on his normal line for entry into the corner, then most likely/potentially, Max could have stopped the car and made the corner normally. That would have been no different to his position when he overtook Charles earlier in the race. Max braked in the same spot when he overtook Charles than when he did with Lewis.

I'd also like to add a philosophical point, as a member, not as a mod:

Max's plan for the corner was clearly to brake very late, be ahead at the apex and thus gain rights by being ahead at the apex. The result of trying to gain rights at the apex was a collision... before the apex. Which makes the whole point a bit meta.

Telemetry, as you ask for is as follows for Max on Laps 61,62 and 63. All with DRS. There was no overspeeding into the corner, braking was probably fractionally later, not very late as you suggest, but thats probably countered by staying in a lower gear with the engine braking, and/or deployment/regenerative strategies to assist slowing down, possibly. (given engine braking will be higher in a lower gear) What the scaling in terms of distance travelled on the telemetry I dont know. It wont be far though. FYI - Lewis braked later than Max on Lap 63 (see telemetry at bottom of post)


Of course, we never get steering angle traces, unless someone is mightily clever to overlay the telemetry with the onboard footage.

Was it a late send? Most probably.
Was it a 'red mist' move? Probably
Most ideal situation for Max making a all or nothing move? Absolutely not. Plenty laps left with a tyre delta
Was there moving under braking? Yep, overhead footage shows it - despite the stewards somehow agreeing with Lewis and his previous consistent lines through T1
Could Lewis have done more to avoid a collision? Yeah, a little bit, as the stewards said.
Was Lewis' line consistent with previous laps? Nope. AR3 made a good post showing it was completly different. As did I explaining the movement as certain braking marker boards.
Is the stewards report contain a few errors? I believe so


There was a few people who were 'sticking up' for Max (used lightly). TFSA, AR3, Me, and Dialtone et al from memory who all made very good points backed up with evidence.

That's all I have to add - Hopefully this answers to your 'mod hat' post (being in Italics like you normally do). Anything else feel free to PM me as I feel you 'have it out' for anyone making decent posts explaining their opinion on the incident. And that will only end in posts being removed and warnings issued for 'repeating the same and spamming'.

[Hoffman900]

Chris33, after repeating like 20 times what you think HAM (potentially) did wrong...
It would be refreshing to hear you enumerate what Max (potentially) did wrong.
Because just repeating the same thing over and over again would be spam. What exactly is that line of discussion supposed to achieve, what is the end game? Everyone bending over and blaming Hamilton?

Note: I added "(potentially)" because I am still to see telemetry clearly showing Ham first braking then turning, as opposite to first turning a tiny bit and then braking, which is a MAX move "braking in a straight line". I am open to believing it when I see something clear saying that braking happened before turning.

I guess you mean me....not that I am chris33 for a start

I think I explained it enough. Pointless going round in circles as your clearly on a "mod mode" there so even if I do elaborate - you will only dish out warnings for 'spamming/trolling a point'. Lets face it, my posts weren't exactly all about the same thing, and any point countered by other users has been made with videos to back up my point.

Both did slightly wrong, I believe the situation was escalated by Lewis moving over under the braking. Had that not happened then Max may not have locked up. But pointless dealing in hypotheticals. As the point just goes round and round.

I'd also like to add a philosophical point, as a member, not as a mod:

Max's plan for the corner was clearly to brake very late, be ahead at the apex and thus gain rights by being ahead at the apex. The result of trying to gain rights at the apex was a collision... before the apex. Which makes the whole point a bit meta.

Telemetry, as you ask for is as follows for Max on Laps 61,62 and 63. All with DRS. There was no overspeeding into the corner, braking was probably fractionally later, not very late as you suggest, but thats probably countered by staying in a lower gear with the engine braking, and/or deployment/regenerative strategies to assist slowing down, possibly. (given engine braking will be higher in a lower gear) What the scaling in terms of distance travelled on the telemetry I dont know. It wont be far though. FYI - Lewis braked later than Max on Lap 63
https://ibb.co/QdFpCHT

Of course, we never get steering angle traces, unless someone is mightily clever to overlay the telemetry with the onboard footage.

Was it a late send? Most probably.
Was it a 'red mist' move? Probably
Most ideal situation for Max making a all or nothing move? Absolutely not. Plenty laps left with a tyre delta
Was there moving under braking? Yep, overhead footage shows it - despite the stewards somehow agreeing with Lewis and his previous consistent lines through T1
Could Lewis have done more to avoid a collision? Yeah, a little bit, as the stewards said.
Was Lewis' line consistent with previous laps? Nope. AR3 made a good post showing it was completly different. As did I explaining the movement as certain braking marker boards.
Is the stewards report contain a few errors? I believe so


There was a few people who were 'sticking up' for Max (used lightly). TFSA, AR3, Me, and Dialtone et al from memory who all made very good points backed up with evidence.

That's all I have to add - Hopefully this answers to your 'mod hat' post (being in Italics like you normally do). Anything else feel free to PM me as I feel you 'have it out' for anyone making decent posts explaining their opinion on the incident. And that will only end in posts being removed and warnings issued for 'repeating the same and spamming'.

The over speeding negates where on the racing surface he was. The more inside you are, the tighter the radius. If he is braking at the same point, but is now more inside relative to the racing line, then he is going too fast.

You’re only looking at part of the picture.

The data if anything, proves he was never making that corner.