2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[chrisc90]

With Hungary being a high DF track, so maximum downforce…. And Max struggling with understeer.
Would that easily be able to be dialled out on say a medium or low downforce track by running a higher spec front wing to give more front?
Vanja referenced a motorsport article in the RB20 thread about airflow being more conditioned to the rear wing, so produces more rear downforce.

Hopefully it’s just a simple case of using a slightly higher downforce front wing to dial out Max’s issues with understeer and get the nose of the car pointy again

[Paa]

I think engine penalty shouldn't be taken on a track where there is a chance to beat Norris.

Last years they went for the win either way, so only factor was if it is easy to overtake. Now the math is different.

Good track for Max.
Without penalty P1 +7 points on Norris
With penalty P4 -13 points to Norris
Engine change delta 20 points!

Bad track for Max (like Singapore)
Without penalty P4 -13 points to Norris
With penalty P8 -21 points to Norris
Engine change delta 8 points!

Now they need to fully utilize their best tracks.

[CjC]

Max will still win with an engine penalty

[Wouter]

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outside the Formula 1 paddock.

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[Sergej]

I think engine penalty shouldn't be taken on a track where there is a chance to beat Norris.

Last years they went for the win either way, so only factor was if it is easy to overtake. Now the math is different.

Good track for Max.
Without penalty P1 +7 points on Norris
With penalty P4 -13 points to Norris
Engine change delta 20 points!

Bad track for Max (like Singapore)
Without penalty P4 -13 points to Norris
With penalty P8 -21 points to Norris
Engine change delta 8 points!

Now they need to fully utilize their best tracks.

spot on

I too don't understand the penalty here, winning starting from 11 (or even further back) will be very difficult this year

I guess (hope) they have done their maths

[Wouter]

Max will still win with an engine penalty

.
I don't think so. 10 place gridpenalty + qualifying place = starting p 12/ 13/ 14/ 15. No way he can win.

[CjC]

Max will still win with an engine penalty

.
I don't think so. 10 place gridpenalty + qualifying place = starting p 12/ 13/ 14/ 15. No way he can win.

I think he’ll be on pole and with their better straight line speed will be able to make positions up after the penalty. I also don’t think Mclaren will be the quickest package either.
My gut feeling is that Max has a better chance of winning the race with a penalty than Lando does in the McLaren.
If need be you can call me a fool in 4 days time

[Vettel165]

Expecting a rainy saturday. If I was Max and Red Bull i would change every component and start from the pit-lane. Otherwise T1 is very risky in the middle of the field.

[Gillian]

Jeopardize this year's title because Verstappen would be leaving next year...?? That's just silly.

Jeopardize? Verstappen is still on for the title if he just keeps a cool head. Could have been a P3 last race...

P3's won't be enough to win the championship...

And how do you expect a driver to keep a cool head when the team basically stops listening to the preference of him, while he is the championship leader?

He could have had a P3 by keeping a cool head, even with the bad strategy etc. The car is not a total turd, making it impossible to win the championship. It will however be impossible if he loses his head like he did in Hungary.

The frustration is understandable, but how he let himself go is not and even for him it was unprecedented which makes me believe there are other reasons for his outburst.

Don't get me wrong, I am of the opinion he is and has been the best driver on the grid for atleast the last 4 - 5 years but for me it is clear to see something has changed lately, both Verstappen himself and the team in general. I am convinced he is leaving the team and RB know it and things are changing.

He should drive as he did in 2020 and 2023, almost flawless, and that will be enough for another championship. Driving like he did in Hungary will surely not.

[Dunlay]

Jeopardize this year's title because Verstappen would be leaving next year...?? That's just silly.

Jeopardize? Verstappen is still on for the title if he just keeps a cool head. Could have been a P3 last race...

P3's won't be enough to win the championship...

And how do you expect a driver to keep a cool head when the team basically stops listening to the preference of him, while he is the championship leader?

There is a basic lesson in team sports. Trust each other! If Max is unable to trust the team, then he should build a car himself, set it up himself, strategize himself, get his own pit stops and win like he and Jos used to do in Karting!!! Let's see how that works out.

[Paa]

I don't think this is about not trusting the team. I feel Horner is stuck in that "everything is fine" mode that he has been radiating since his scandal.

Years like 2020 or second part of 2021 was different ad they were the underdogs and it was clear and aknoweldged.

Now they have been underdogs since a few races now, but it had not been aknoweldged. Horner, most fans, commentators and media all acted like during past races like RedBull still is the big favorite. While Max had been doing what he did in 2021 and almost noone noticed. I think this is what frustrates him. Then add some late night gaming and you get Hungary race

Maybe the general view is slowly changing now, but these things needs to be said.
1. For the outside so Max(and operation team) gets the recognition he (they) deserves and got for similar performances in the past (he is only human, I guess)
2. Internally by Horner as well, because first you need to state the problem to be able to address that effectively and find a solution.

[Dunlay]

I don't think this is about not trusting the team. I feel Horner is stuck in that "everything is fine" mode that he has been radiating since his scandal.

Years like 2020 or second part of 2021 was different ad they were the underdogs and it was clear and aknoweldged.

Now they have been underdogs since a few races now, but it had not been aknoweldged. Horner, most fans, commentators and media all acted like during past races like RedBull still is the big favorite. While Max had been doing what he did in 2021 and almost noone noticed. I think this is what frustrates him. Then add some late night gaming and you get Hungary race

Maybe the general view is slowly changing now, but these things needs to be said.
1. For the outside so Max(and operation team) gets the recognition he (they) deserves and got for similar performances in the past (he is only human, I guess)
2. Internally by Horner as well, because first you need to state the problem to be able to address that effectively and find a solution.

If the problem is not trust, then it has to be stupidity. In his post FP2 debriefs, he would have known that Mercedes was not a threat. FP3 race sim looked more consistent and better and he should have known if there was any compromise they did with one lap pace to gain race pace. Heck, Marko knew that! I mentioned in another post earlier and I state it again. They most likely didn't consider Mercedes to be a threat and kept him out because they were focusing on McLarens. They were right. He should have known that very well, instead of shouting on team radio. They were trying to see if they can go longer and give a tyre offset advantage to have a go at McLarens later in the race. If he didn't pay attention to those details, it's his problem. May be a good night's sleep and focus on actual race, instead of sim race would have helped.

[Paa]

Yeah, I don't think he was that frustrated because of an actual decision, it seemed to me a more generic one.
Probably he wouldn't have liked the early pit stop either. I was trying to find out the underlying reasons.

[TNTHead]

Jeopardize? Verstappen is still on for the title if he just keeps a cool head. Could have been a P3 last race...

P3's won't be enough to win the championship...

And how do you expect a driver to keep a cool head when the team basically stops listening to the preference of him, while he is the championship leader?

He could have had a P3 by keeping a cool head, even with the bad strategy etc. The car is not a total turd, making it impossible to win the championship. It will however be impossible if he loses his head like he did in Hungary.

The frustration is understandable, but how he let himself go is not and even for him it was unprecedented which makes me believe there are other reasons for his outburst.

Don't get me wrong, I am of the opinion he is and has been the best driver on the grid for atleast the last 4 - 5 years but for me it is clear to see something has changed lately, both Verstappen himself and the team in general. I am convinced he is leaving the team and RB know it and things are changing.

He should drive as he did in 2020 and 2023, almost flawless, and that will be enough for another championship. Driving like he did in Hungary will surely not.

He used the wording 'they gave me this strategy'. When he is speaking of 'they' it seems there is a lack of trust. It might indeed be that he is on the route to the exit. Which would be a disaster for Red Bull, and may be for Verstappen as well. It takes a lot of time to build a championship winning team.

[Just_a_fan]

Jeopardize this year's title because Verstappen would be leaving next year...?? That's just silly.

Jeopardize? Verstappen is still on for the title if he just keeps a cool head. Could have been a P3 last race...

P3's won't be enough to win the championship...

And how do you expect a driver to keep a cool head when the team basically stops listening to the preference of him, while he is the championship leader?

Rather depends on who is taking P1 and P2. If Lando, for example, takes P1 every race then P3 isn't enough for Max. But if we see a number of drivers taking P1 and P2, it reduces the chances that Lando gets sufficient points to beat Max. But, yes, for Max, a mix of P1, P2 and P3 is a much better outcome.

The key, however, is accept P3 if trying to take P2 risks a drop down the places or even a DNF. Better a secure P3 than try for a dodgy P2 overtake and end up P4, P5, etc.. From here on, it's about maximising the points whilst minimising the incidents.