The irony of Jos's comment is that Christian Horner is the only irreplaceable one at Red Bull. Everyone else is there because Horner put them there.Jurgen von Diaz wrote: ↑04 Aug 2024, 14:52Yes, it is natural for Wheatley to go for TP, but I can't stop thinking of what Jos said that the team is falling apart because of Horner. After that, Newey leaves, the team's domination ends, and Wheatley leaves. Too many coincidences.Vanja #66 wrote:Wheatley leaving for a TP position is quite a natural step for someone looking to make it, as it was reported of him a while ago. Audi is a reasonable decision for him and he's a fantastic catch for them.
Top brass are changing teams a lot lately and there is absolutely nothing different with Red Bull. Newey and Wheatley leaving must have made quite a massive opening in the 2025 budget, just like it does for othee teams.
In the last 18-20 months Ferrari "lost" Binotto, Sanchez, Mekies and Cardille of the "big" names and all of them got a promotion or a pay raise in another team, compared to that Red Bull is having a great time keeping top brass around!
Twisting the narrative into blaming Horner for this "implosion"... Not even gonna comment
Yes, Horner's staying could have caused other key members like Newey and Wheatley to leave, a scenario that we cannot entirely rule out.TeamKoolGreen wrote:The irony of Jos's comment is that Christian Horner is the only irreplaceable one at Red Bull. Everyone else is there because Horner put them there.Jurgen von Diaz wrote: ↑04 Aug 2024, 14:52Yes, it is natural for Wheatley to go for TP, but I can't stop thinking of what Jos said that the team is falling apart because of Horner. After that, Newey leaves, the team's domination ends, and Wheatley leaves. Too many coincidences.Vanja #66 wrote:Wheatley leaving for a TP position is quite a natural step for someone looking to make it, as it was reported of him a while ago. Audi is a reasonable decision for him and he's a fantastic catch for them.
Top brass are changing teams a lot lately and there is absolutely nothing different with Red Bull. Newey and Wheatley leaving must have made quite a massive opening in the 2025 budget, just like it does for othee teams.
In the last 18-20 months Ferrari "lost" Binotto, Sanchez, Mekies and Cardille of the "big" names and all of them got a promotion or a pay raise in another team, compared to that Red Bull is having a great time keeping top brass around!
Twisting the narrative into blaming Horner for this "implosion"... Not even gonna comment
Going as a Team Principal for teams that never make progress upwards is a career suicide. We have seen so many intelligent and successful technical directors making such a move and gone into oblivion. Paddy Lowe for example. Of the top teams, going to Ferrari is a financially beneficial suicide, but a suicide. By the time Wheatly would have banged his head without much success at Sauber/Audi, there would be someone else at Red Bull that would be ready to become Team Principal, like GP for instance. So it's a one way street for Wheatly. Toto doesn't seem to be going anywhere either, which is why Vowels went to Williams. Look at his situation. Not everyone can become Ross Brawn that can go, turn teams around and make them successful. Unless money is a factor, being at a team that has the limelight is usually the safest thing to do. You enjoy the perks of success, be a sought after man and then when the opportunity does come, then get the role you always wanted.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑03 Aug 2024, 14:53Wheatley will make a good TP, I'm sure. He's one of the brains behind Red Bull's success and I think the team will miss him.Vanja #66 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2024, 13:05Wheatley leaving for a TP position is quite a natural step for someone looking to make it, as it was reported of him a while ago. Audi is a reasonable decision for him and he's a fantastic catch for them.
Top brass are changing teams a lot lately and there is absolutely nothing different with Red Bull. Newey and Wheatley leaving must have made quite a massive opening in the 2025 budget, just like it does for othee teams.
In the last 18-20 months Ferrari "lost" Binotto, Sanchez, Mekies and Cardille of the "big" names and all of them got a promotion or a pay raise in another team, compared to that Red Bull is having a great time keeping top brass around!
Twisting the narrative into blaming Horner for this "implosion"... Not even gonna comment
Andrea Stella is doing great. James Volves is lifting Williams from the grave and has just hired 250 people over the last two years, finally implemented and ERP system and succeeded in signing Carlos Sainz. Even Ayao Komatsu is doing well.Waz wrote: ↑05 Aug 2024, 14:37Mentioning Ross Brawn is quite interesting. There doesn't seem to be anyone amongst the younger F1 management that might be capable of joining a team and completely turning it around into something successful.
We haven't seen anyone do that since his last effort of turning a dead beat Honda team into BrawnGP and then ultimately the dominant Mercedes.
You can't rule it out no doubt, But many of the reports were Newey only signed is last contact because of Horner.Jurgen von Diaz wrote: ↑04 Aug 2024, 16:39Yes, Horner's staying could have caused other key members like Newey and Wheatley to leave, a scenario that we cannot entirely rule out.TeamKoolGreen wrote:The irony of Jos's comment is that Christian Horner is the only irreplaceable one at Red Bull. Everyone else is there because Horner put them there.Jurgen von Diaz wrote: ↑04 Aug 2024, 14:52
Yes, it is natural for Wheatley to go for TP, but I can't stop thinking of what Jos said that the team is falling apart because of Horner. After that, Newey leaves, the team's domination ends, and Wheatley leaves. Too many coincidences.
as I said much time ago, upgrades are not delivering as expected, at least they are not hiding it“I think we pushed the boundary a little bit high and, in some areas, maybe too much, and that has created some characteristics that are not designed for the drivers.
The success is coming, not by yourself, it is also coming by the relative performance to the others. Last year, we were fortunate that the others didn’t do as good a job as they have done this year, I think that is also an aspect we have to take into account.
RB20 is a better car than RB19 – however, maybe we could do a better job and that’s what we are trying to fix for the end of the season and for next year, to give the drivers a better tool to be able to fight.”
This quote makes me wonder if they indeed could introduce an updated front suspension at the end of the year. Maybe even the RB21 chassis. Sure, the viability is questionable especially under the budget cap. However, if they identified the root cause of their issues after Monaco and Imola, the timeline for a new chassis could be sufficiently long. We pretty much know Red Bull had a new chassis ready at some point around the Singapore Grand Prix a few years ago which they chose not to introduce. And regarding the budget cap aspect, Red Bull is the team most limited in WT and CFD hours, which ironically saves them some expense. Given that 2025 will basically be a continuation of the current car family, they might as well put their latest ideas to the test before the winter because next year they'll won't have much resources for the 2025 car.RB20 is a better car than RB19 – however, maybe we could do a better job and that’s what we are trying to fix for the end of the season and for next year, to give the drivers a better tool to be able to fight.”
The FIA has provisions to ensure all teams are within 30hp at best. This 100hp bs will not fly.TeamKoolGreen wrote: ↑04 Aug 2024, 14:57This claim that RBPT are 100 hp down is nothing but fanciful rumours by fans of other teams. Yet it gets trotted out here as fact. Abject nonsense like this shouldn't be allowed to fly on a serious technical forum.
I think they did the right thing from the RB19 personally except for somehow losing tire wear. They made RB19's strengths even better -- more efficient and better high speed and compensated quite a bit for slow speed. What I didn't see was them losing ground to McLaren on tire management. Tire management is really the issue with RB20. Fix that and half the issues will be gone.ME4ME wrote: ↑05 Aug 2024, 21:35On Motorsport.com Wache is quoted to admit that RB20 isn't living up to expectations in the high speed and that curb riding is still an issue, just as it was last year.
My guess is they overdid the anti-dive on the front suspension somewhat, didn't get the gains but got the disadvantages of such geometry. Mercedes if I recall correctly experimented in the pre-season test with a Red Bull esque aggressive anti-dive geometry but backed off a bit.
Edit:This quote makes me wonder if they indeed could introduce an updated front suspension at the end of the year. Maybe even the RB21 chassis. Sure, the viability is questionable especially under the budget cap. However, if they identified the root cause of their issues after Monaco and Imola, the timeline for a new chassis could be sufficiently long. We pretty much know Red Bull had a new chassis ready at some point around the Singapore Grand Prix a few years ago which they chose not to introduce. And regarding the budget cap aspect, Red Bull is the team most limited in WT and CFD hours, which ironically saves them some expense. Given that 2025 will basically be a continuation of the current car family, they might as well put their latest ideas to the test before the winter because next year they'll won't have much resources for the 2025 car.RB20 is a better car than RB19 – however, maybe we could do a better job and that’s what we are trying to fix for the end of the season and for next year, to give the drivers a better tool to be able to fight.”
He didn't say anything about upgrades here though?Sergej wrote: ↑05 Aug 2024, 20:44Wachéas I said much time ago, upgrades are not delivering as expected, at least they are not hiding it“I think we pushed the boundary a little bit high and, in some areas, maybe too much, and that has created some characteristics that are not designed for the drivers.
The success is coming, not by yourself, it is also coming by the relative performance to the others. Last year, we were fortunate that the others didn’t do as good a job as they have done this year, I think that is also an aspect we have to take into account.
RB20 is a better car than RB19 – however, maybe we could do a better job and that’s what we are trying to fix for the end of the season and for next year, to give the drivers a better tool to be able to fight.”
also, some areas where they pushed too much, maybe a reference to the stiff suspension ?
But did they?