2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Quantum]

I provided Red Bulls head mechanic Phil Turner's account for how the car is assembled.

An F1 car is not an off the shelf one size fits all jack of all trades mechanic can simply assemble. Turner goes into that.
Each mechanic has their specific role.
Turner describes it as "bespoke".
What that means is specifically tailored to that individual part of the car.

He even outlines it. "We build it in pieces"
Front end mechanic does front end, number 1 mechanic does fuel lines, PU guys do install. BESPOKE.
Turner also says he will get his hands dirty
"If the need arises". Ie sickness.
Being head mechanic it is absolutely essential for him to know everything. If he came out and said BS, then there's validity to "ridiculous" attacks had he been the source of the denial.

There is no source to validate Calum being able to assemble the brake system.
That is pure speculation. It's not his job.

I can speculate too.
It's also bereft of logic to tell the entire assembly team what a hypothetical magic bullet device does unless they need to know.
Why on earth would a team develop (supposedly) magic bullet brake system and then tell the PU install guy all about it?
F1 is about IP retention. It goes without saying teams implement strict controls on who knows what.
My opinion is Calum genuinely doesn't know even if there was a system being deployed by RB. Because he wouldn't be in that information loop.

[chrisc90]

Well if people are quickly dis-regarding Calum's input into the brake valve, then we can dis-regard some media journalists take on the system even quicker because they are even further out of the potential information loop than a member of the team. Especially when such system isn't plausible anyhow.

[hollus]

Note to everyone:
Please tone down the language a notch, thanks. It helps discuss what it being discussed instead of starting fights.
Please, learn to agree to disagree. It is an endless loop otherwise, there is endless newcomers that can come and disagree anew and start the whole cycle again. Make you point, but live with possible conflicting opinions from others. 2-3 posts, and stop. You are here to learn, not to win (ha! ,one can dream, but you know that the first is better for everyone).

[Holm86]

Note to everyone:
Please tone down the language a notch, thanks. It helps discuss what it being discussed instead of starting fights.
Please, learn to agree to disagree. It is an endless loop otherwise, there is endless newcomers that can come and disagree anew and start the whole cycle again. Make you point, but live with possible conflicting opinions from others. 2-3 posts, and stop. You are here to learn, not to win (ha! ,one can dream, but you know that the first is better for everyone).

This is why this forum has gone downhill, too many fanboys now who get offended when their team is being questioned rather than trying to figure out whats really going on, something this forum has done plenty of times in the past ...

[AR3-GP]

C3-C4-C5 for Dutch GP, Monza, and Singapore.

[Sergej]

C3-C4-C5 for Dutch GP, Monza, and Singapore.
https://i.postimg.cc/rFgSBTp9/image.png

C5 for Zandvoort ? good luck I guess it's for Monza, Baku and Singapore

[Wouter]

C3-C4-C5 for Dutch GP, Monza, and Singapore.
https://i.postimg.cc/rFgSBTp9/image.png

.
This is about the September GP's. Zandvoort is in August.

[AR3-GP]

Of course, that is a terrible error A C5 in Zandvoort would be very bad.

[Quantum]

Not sure if you were trying to be condescending, but it's not helpful to constructive discussion and not appreciated.

My point is that he doesn't work on the power unit in a vacuum. Your suggestion that because he works on the PU he would therefore necessarily not know anything about the braking system of the rb20 is ridiculous

On the topic of condescending, unhelpful, unconstructive posts, what do you think about calling someone else’s opinion “ridiculous”?

If someone is a mechanic who has worked at the team in many roles over the years, who speaks to their colleagues daily, helps to build/take apart the car every weekend. In my view it is plainly absurd, silly, ridiculous to assume they cannot know anything about the brake system and their view should therefore be discounted because their current primary role is working with the PU. I don't see how that's unhelpful, condescending etc. just my view on someone else's point being incorrect.

Aside:

Calum Nicholas is not the only rbr employee that works on the rb20 that has said publicly they've never heard of such a system being on the car. But hey, maybe it's all a coordinated response

It's not his primary role. It is his only role building that car.
That's from the head mechanic, sourced and quoted. We can speculate if everyone in the Red Bull pits knows about a fancy trick they might doing with the brakes. If it is so well known within the Red Bull pits, I find it ridiculous, absurd and silly that information stays within a group of people with most of them earning below 70,000 dollars a year.

[Curbstone]

On the topic of condescending, unhelpful, unconstructive posts, what do you think about calling someone else’s opinion “ridiculous”?

If someone is a mechanic who has worked at the team in many roles over the years, who speaks to their colleagues daily, helps to build/take apart the car every weekend. In my view it is plainly absurd, silly, ridiculous to assume they cannot know anything about the brake system and their view should therefore be discounted because their current primary role is working with the PU. I don't see how that's unhelpful, condescending etc. just my view on someone else's point being incorrect.

Aside:

Calum Nicholas is not the only rbr employee that works on the rb20 that has said publicly they've never heard of such a system being on the car. But hey, maybe it's all a coordinated response

It's not his primary role. It is his only role building that car.
That's from the head mechanic, sourced and quoted. We can speculate if everyone in the Red Bull pits knows about a fancy trick they might doing with the brakes. If it is so well known within the Red Bull pits, I find it ridiculous, absurd and silly that information stays within a group of people with most of them earning below 70,000 dollars a year.

I Reckon he would know about these tricks. Yes that speculation.
You believe he doesn't know, that's also speculation.
Maybe we should just leave is with that.

Regarding te bald part; 'The thief believes that everybody is like him', have a little faith in the intentions of the personnel (and the deterrent effect of non-disclosure agreements with undoubtedly high fines).
Generally engineers don't do it for the money but, so why discredit your own team...?

[Quantum]

I Reckon he would know about these tricks. Yes that speculation.
You believe he doesn't know, that's also speculation.
Maybe we should just leave is with that.

Regarding te bald part; 'The thief believes that everybody is like him', have a little faith in the intentions of the personnel (and the deterrent effect of non-disclosure agreements with undoubtedly high fines).
Generally engineers don't do it for the money but, so why discredit your own team...?

Absolutely agree on the first part that disagreement can be had without needing to go into the realms of SILLY RIDICULOUS etc etc. I just know for a fact that Calum does not touch those brakes and that's from the head mechanic of RB. Calum says a lot of things on Twitter, and fair play to him for that, I agree with most of what he posts. But his opinions on matters he is not directly involved with are still opinions.

Regarding the second part of your post I don't agree. It was also not with any nefarious assertions of staff selling secrets. That was not the spirit of my post.
My reasoning is very reductive to the moving parts of a season in F1 and the ratio of IP investment to personnel rotations. You have RB personnel from 2022-3 in Mercedes/Ferrari/McLaren/AT/Alpine/Williams (delete where appropriate) pit garage in 2024.
In a budget cap era we are seeing staff moving at a higher frequency as margin is squeezed.

If your entire assembly team and their backups, including the pit staff know the details of a silver bullet, you will lose that very quickly when just 1 of those staff leave. 70k dollar to 95k dollar pay bump and Merc ferrari etc get details on a design that would cost millions to explore and build.
So why would you tell your entire assembly team when you can reduce your risk by only including the core component (the actual person responsible)?

[f1isgood]

People really arguing about an RBR employee's Twitter post? We have fallen off. Hope the car is good enough to win a few more races on merit and get Max the WDC without drama.

[organic]

AMuS

Wrong turn in development
Red Bull's problem child is Sergio Perez. The Mexican suffers more than Verstappen from the fact that the Red Bull RB20 has become a mixed bag. Marko states: "At the start of the season, we had a car that was as balanced as the McLaren is now. It could handle all tracks and all conditions. Then we took a wrong turn somewhere. The car has become a buck that only Max can tame."

All development steps came to nothing. "They made the car more and more unpredictable. It became more and more difficult to set it up and balance it," says Marko, looking back. Team boss Christian Horner confirms: "The window in which our car works has become smaller."

At least it still works now and again. Max Verstappen put the Red Bull on pole position in Spielberg with a lead of four tenths and in Spa with six tenths. Marko warns against overestimating the return to former glory. "Those were special qualifying laps from Max. In the race, the superiority was gone. Like Mercedes at the beginning of the year, we are sometimes fast and sometimes slow depending on the conditions. Sometimes even in the same race as in Silverstone, where it rained in between."

From Monza onwards, there will be Recourse to return old qualities

The engineers also realized that they had overstepped the mark here and there in their aggressive development program. What happened to them was what had happened to others. The upgrade was not progress, but at best a side step. Most of the time, reality did not live up to what the wind tunnel promised.

The development of these ground effect cars is a balancing act between good and evil. There is not much room for improvement. Drivability in practice has become more important than downforce records in theory. That's what happened to Mercedes and recently to Ferrari. Only McLaren is consistent, but has also refrained from making major upgrades since the last major renovation of its car.

The Red Bull engineers will react to the whims of the RB20. A development program will be running from Monza onwards, in which old specifications will be used or old parts will be mixed with new ones. This is particularly true in the area of ​​the underbody. Marko: "When the car's reactions are more predictable again, Perez will also find his speed again."

That's why Red Bull didn't replace the Mexican. They realized that their problem child would perform well again when they could trust the car. Just like at the start of the season, when Perez finished on the podium four times in five races. In addition, there is currently no driver in the Red Bull squad who is as fast as Verstappen in every racing car. If the car doesn't change, everyone would have the Perez problem.

[Sergej]

I've been saying for weeks that upgrades are not delivering as expected, now this "creative" development program with old parts scares me even more but maybe it's budget cap related, let's give new parts only to Max to save money

very difficult second half ahead

[organic]

I've been saying for weeks that upgrades are not delivering as expected, now this "creative" development program with old parts scares me even more but maybe it's budget cap related, let's give new parts only to Max to save money

very difficult second half ahead

AMR did it last year when they had correlation issues and eventually found a way through