2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[mwillems]

The holier than thou attitude doesn't come off very well "if you decide to accept facts" sounds so patronising, mind you saying people are small minded isn't a great look either but I don't think Sean is crazy to suggest that the Mercedes is the faster car recently (winnning races recently makes it at the very least debatable), certainly 1 or 2 good races doesn't mean the Ferrari is suddenly faster especially when its only performed at unique tracks like monza or monaco.

I know you're a veteran on the forum but I have noticed that you act as if your opinion is fact and the vast majority of users here are chatting bs, and then treat them like they are stupid. You may be knowledgable (especially technically) but that doesn't make your opinions defacto correct or more valid than anyone else, especially when speculating as to which car is better right now (something that changes from track to track anyway and thus is basically a pointless debate). I mean you tell him not to use personal insults while you call him ignorant "the other side keeps denying facts" and then dillusional "if you dedcide to accept facts", not exactly practicing what you preach is it?

Holier than thou? Veteran on forum? Come on mate, "pulling rank" like that is laughable anywhere, any time. What would that look like on a technical forum, among a bunch of engineers who are set to challenge any smidgen of authority by default?

Back to actual topic of discussion again, lets look at how Mercedes actually won races. Austria was pure luck on two accounts, first with Max and Lando crashing, second with Piastri failing in Q3 and having to work a lot to get back to the front and this put him out of realistic contest to inherit the win. McLaren and Red Bull were obviously better.

Isn't the question "are Merc faster than Ferrari right now?" and not did Merc deserve their wins? Your answer seems to mix in a lot of points I didn't think are relevant.

Definately they lucked some wins, but it doesn't feel like that was the point in question.

We're they legitimately ahead of Ferrari in those races feels like the question being debated.

[Sphere3758]

The holier than thou attitude doesn't come off very well "if you decide to accept facts" sounds so patronising, mind you saying people are small minded isn't a great look either but I don't think Sean is crazy to suggest that the Mercedes is the faster car recently (winnning races recently makes it at the very least debatable), certainly 1 or 2 good races doesn't mean the Ferrari is suddenly faster especially when its only performed at unique tracks like monza or monaco.

I know you're a veteran on the forum but I have noticed that you act as if your opinion is fact and the vast majority of users here are chatting bs, and then treat them like they are stupid. You may be knowledgable (especially technically) but that doesn't make your opinions defacto correct or more valid than anyone else, especially when speculating as to which car is better right now (something that changes from track to track anyway and thus is basically a pointless debate). I mean you tell him not to use personal insults while you call him ignorant "the other side keeps denying facts" and then dillusional "if you dedcide to accept facts", not exactly practicing what you preach is it?

Holier than thou? Veteran on forum? Come on mate, "pulling rank" like that is laughable anywhere, any time. What would that look like on a technical forum, among a bunch of engineers who are set to challenge any smidgen of authority by default?

Back to actual topic of discussion again, lets look at how Mercedes actually won races. Austria was pure luck on two accounts, first with Max and Lando crashing, second with Piastri failing in Q3 and having to work a lot to get back to the front and this put him out of realistic contest to inherit the win. McLaren and Red Bull were obviously better.

Isn't the question "are Merc faster than Ferrari right now?" and not did Merc deserve their wins? Your answer seems to mix in a lot of points I didn't think are relevant.

Definately they lucked some wins, but it doesn't feel like that was the point in question.

We're they legitimately ahead of Ferrari in those races feels like the question being debated.

There is a difference b/w "Were they ahead in those races" vs "Are they ahead in the development race".

Mercedes were definitely faster than Ferrari in some races, but it feels quite circumstantial. Both teams have cars which are quite picky and show a big performance differential when the conditions suit them. The few times it suited Mercedes, they got lucky to get the win because of external factors as Vanja stated. Ferrari and Mercedes are also the 2 best driver lineups on the grid, with both Lewis and Charles capable of pulling performances which can flatter the car at times.

What we are attempting to do is predict future performance based on past data. There is no clear indication that Mercedes is ahead of Ferrari at the moment for that.

[mwillems]

Holier than thou? Veteran on forum? Come on mate, "pulling rank" like that is laughable anywhere, any time. What would that look like on a technical forum, among a bunch of engineers who are set to challenge any smidgen of authority by default?

Back to actual topic of discussion again, lets look at how Mercedes actually won races. Austria was pure luck on two accounts, first with Max and Lando crashing, second with Piastri failing in Q3 and having to work a lot to get back to the front and this put him out of realistic contest to inherit the win. McLaren and Red Bull were obviously better.

Isn't the question "are Merc faster than Ferrari right now?" and not did Merc deserve their wins? Your answer seems to mix in a lot of points I didn't think are relevant.

Definately they lucked some wins, but it doesn't feel like that was the point in question.

We're they legitimately ahead of Ferrari in those races feels like the question being debated.

There is a difference b/w "Were they ahead in those races" vs "Are they ahead in the development race".

Mercedes were definitely faster than Ferrari in some races, but it feels quite circumstantial. Both teams have cars which are quite picky and show a big performance differential when the conditions suit them. The few times it suited Mercedes, they got lucky to get the win because of external factors as Vanja stated. Ferrari and Mercedes are also the 2 best driver lineups on the grid, with both Lewis and Charles capable of pulling performances which can flatter the car at times.

What we are attempting to do is predict future performance based on past data. There is no clear indication that Mercedes is ahead of Ferrari at the moment for that.

I think the point I make is that the circumstances chose to be presented are why Mercedes have got so many points. Not if they are actually faster than Ferarri, whether it be by .03 or .3 seconds.

To my mind, I think Mercedes have legitimately developed past Ferrari by a small margin. And I think the margins are very small between all the teams. I also think that Mercedes have legitimately beaten Ferrari at a variety of tracks and situations so it goes beyond a little bit of fortune. Happy to be shown to be wrong, but the argument presented wasn't really answering that question.

It's not because of Seanspead because he'd already stated that Mercedes are within development reach in his opinion. I think they all are, to be honest, but he obviously thinks Ferrari are closer to Merc than others, despite the wins that Merc got. I don't think Merc deserved those wins, I'm a Mclaren fan and I think they stole them from us! lol But I do think they did put themselves in contention for those wins, which Ferrari haven't really done since Monaco. So it was already quite clear that how many wins and points Merc got wasn't really relevant or in question at all and that he was aware that these results didn't put Merc ahead of Mclaren or Red Bull in terms of development.

[DoctorRadio]

Mercedes have got slightly past Ferrari because Ferrari put the foot wrong in Spain and it’s possible they have to go through the same pain with the floor introduced in Belgium.
Ferrari on the other have completed their process of understanding what was wrong so they are on the path to gradually get closer and closer to Mclaren (Red Bull I feel is already within their reach).

Mind you, we are talking of 2 tenths to fight for the first place, taking conclusions on the relative competitiveness on the different tracks with so small margins is very prone to mistakes.
Mclaren is fastest, but they are not on the planet of the RB19.

[mwillems]

Your last point is really relevant. The gaps are small. But they are in general consistently small and I think to some this has changed the perception of what a big margin is.

Being ahead by 2 tenths in Qualy is talked about as a big margin whereas this used to be considered close. It is a gap if you look at it purely as a difference between drivers performance. But certainly not in terms if development. This context of the "big" gap has been a bit too pervasive.

[KimiRai]

New engine for Sainz. I apologize for my comments yesterday, you were right.

[CouncilorIrissa]

The car looked better on old softs than on fresh lol

[franbatista123]

Those times are insane on older softs

[Fakepivot]

nice to see car being stable and not seeing driver constantly fight the car in corners. they might not win but you can't deny they have taken a step forward. wonder what else upgrade they will bring to next 2 race? like in this race itself they bought lot of upgrades, what else is there on the car that requires update?

[Tvetovnato]

I think the Ferrari looks the most drivable of the top teams here. Out of Lesmo Two you seldom see any wobbles or corrections like many others have to do. Seems to be a real step forward here if the times are true.

[Xyz22]

New engine for Sainz. I apologize for my comments yesterday, you were right.

Don’t worry.
They probably decided to go for it in the end.


Anyway drivers are still struggling quite a bit on new tyres.

[deadhead]

Settled then

[deadhead]

nice to see car being stable and not seeing driver constantly fight the car in corners. they might not win but you can't deny they have taken a step forward. wonder what else upgrade they will bring to next 2 race? like in this race itself they bought lot of upgrades, what else is there on the car that requires update?

Rumor is that this here at Monza is the last upgrade of the season.

[Emag]

nice to see car being stable and not seeing driver constantly fight the car in corners. they might not win but you can't deny they have taken a step forward. wonder what else upgrade they will bring to next 2 race? like in this race itself they bought lot of upgrades, what else is there on the car that requires update?

Rumor is that this here at Monza is the last upgrade of the season.

To be fair, this was quite a big upgrade. It seems like the floor has received a lot of attention and almost the entire thing, including the diffuser, has changed quite a bit. On top of that, there seems to have been some work on the internal packaging as well, since the sidepod has been slightly reprofiled and it is now tighter while also allowing for a slightly bigger undercut.

[Fakepivot]

Rumor is that this here at Monza is the last upgrade of the season.

OH? here to " next Year™ "