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I don’t think Lando has much ground to say anything after that performance to be honest. One of the weakest races I have seen, even worse than Spa.
But the team having their head so far up their asses with the whole “let them race” attitude to the point they throw away results.
Man, it makes me angry just thinking about it. What kind of genius is leading that strategy department.
My sentiments exactly...piastri could have really been the bottle cap for all those behind him. Let Lando race away and protect any type of counter strategy. This equal status needs to go asap. But honestly it's too late now. Max has one hand on the championship and mclaren are really messing up now.
Norris is not championship material I'm afraid. I don't see the same drive and hunger to capitalise on all the chances he's been given. Frankly, he should be leading the WDC today - that's five race wins squandered now, how many more chances does he need? When the car is not as dominant as it was in Zandvoort, he fails to deliver time and time again.
Ha ha ha...so the car was mighty in Zandvoort and thia ia the reason Lando won by 23 seconds and made the fastest lap in the last lap. Remind me wher did Oscar finished that race?! Ooo...wait, only Lando's car was mighty.
Sometimes I read on this forum such "interesting" posts that I think was better when McLaren was eliminated with both cars in Q1.
I am a McLaren fan since 1992, I saw a lot of events during this time, with ups and downs, chearing for Senna, Hakkinen or Hamilton WDC or suffering for periods with painful results.
But you have to admit that, beside a mighty second stint from Leclerc and Ferrari strategy, today victory was "facilitated" by the turn 4 attack of Oscar on Lando. Specially that was not a clean overtake and Lando had to heavy brake and lost P2 to Charles.
For the moment McLaren looks good on WCC but if they want to avoid a toxic relationship between the two drivers, a possible collision between them one time or to have a chance on WDC this "papaya rules" (red)bull'sh1t should stop.
The point being made is that you need to be able to do it all the time. Pointing to one good race, as many did last week, throwing around the word "Dominant" was premature beyond belief and I made this point very clearly. One win is not dominant. In fact it is highly belated. Wait for the next few races to see if he is the dominant driver in the championship. And guess what, mugged again.
The "Number 1" and "Dominant" driver is currently losing 5-4 since Miami to Oscar. Undoubtedly he's the faster driver, but there are parts of his game that the recent rookie had since day 1 that Lando just doesn't.
Honestly, I'm so frustrated with Lando. It was the same last year, except then it didn't matter. He's got time. He can afford mistakes.
it's year 7 for f*cks sake. He shouldn't be getting beaten by Oscar, period.
For Lando to lead the team he needs to feel like the team leader. And the team aren't giving him that number 1 statue. If mclaren want to win both championships they need a clear number 1 and that is Lando. Oscar had his chance early in the season but lando was the one that scored more points early on. I have nothing against Oscar but McLaren need to pull their thumbs out and decide who is their number 1.
Mclaren has the best and most equal pairing on the grid. Leclerc is much better than sainz, max is miles ahade of perez and george and lewis are near each other but they are not fighting for anything. So Norris definetly has the hardest job to beat his team mate in the same car, and he does that every weekend, and somehow some people are saying that Lando is not WDC material. What about Oscar then?
If Norris was in free air after turn 4 he would win this race with 10+ seconds. His race pace is faster and even more in a free air. That move by Oscar was great and bold, but not on his team mate who gave him his first victory (after being faster in bigger part of the race) and who is in the championship fight. In particular after Lando had better start and did everything right in the first corner. If that was Max or even Charles that overtake would end up as a crash, no doubt. I find it pretty ridiculous for oscar to be so much selfish after all.
For me Oscar is the reason why we are not celebrating 1-2 today and the lead in WCC. I know it is harsh, but the race was made much more difficult after that move in turn 4.
To end in a positive note, we are still in the fight for glory in both championships, but we have to be more decisive and maximise our chanches in every race because we have rocketship worth the title.
Ha ha ha...so the car was mighty in Zandvoort and thia ia the reason Lando won by 23 seconds and made the fastest lap in the last lap. Remind me wher did Oscar finished that race?! Ooo...wait, only Lando's car was mighty.
Sometimes I read on this forum such "interesting" posts that I think was better when McLaren was eliminated with both cars in Q1.
I am a McLaren fan since 1992, I saw a lot of events during this time, with ups and downs, chearing for Senna, Hakkinen or Hamilton WDC or suffering for periods with painful results.
But you have to admit that, beside a mighty second stint from Leclerc and Ferrari strategy, today victory was "facilitated" by the turn 4 attack of Oscar on Lando. Specially that was not a clean overtake and Lando had to heavy brake and lost P2 to Charles.
For the moment McLaren looks good on WCC but if they want to avoid a toxic relationship between the two drivers, a possible collision between them one time or to have a chance on WDC this "papaya rules" (red)bull'sh1t should stop.
The point being made is that you need to be able to do it all the time. Pointing to one good race, as many did last week, throwing around the word "Dominant" was premature beyond belief and I made this point very clearly. One win is not dominant. In fact it is highly belated. Wait for the next few races to see if he is the dominant driver in the championship. And guess what, mugged again.
The "Number 1" and "Dominant" driver is currently losing 5-4 since Miami to Oscar. Undoubtedly he's the faster driver, but there are parts of his game that the recent rookie had since day 1 that Lando just doesn't.
Honestly, I'm so frustrated with Lando. It was the same last year, except then it didn't matter. He's got time. He can afford mistakes.
it's year 7 for f*cks sake. He shouldn't be getting beaten by Oscar, period.
For Lando to lead the team he needs to feel like the team leader. And the team aren't giving him that number 1 statue. If mclaren want to win both championships they need a clear number 1 and that is Lando. Oscar had his chance early in the season but lando was the one that scored more points early on. I have nothing against Oscar but McLaren need to pull their thumbs out and decide who is their number 1.
But what has Lando done to deserve it? Until last week the gap to Max had been growing, not shrinking, since Miami. He couldn't and still isn't really, extending the gap much to Oscar.
He had a good race last week and everyone starts crowing. He's not done anywhere near enough to deserve being a number 1 driver, not even close.
I'll calm down by tomorrow. But mistakes and not capitalising isn't a recent thing, he's making a whole career out of it.
Last edited by mwillems on 01 Sep 2024, 17:37, edited 1 time in total.
For Lando to lead the team he needs to feel like the team leader. And the team aren't giving him that number 1 statue. If mclaren want to win both championships they need a clear number 1 and that is Lando. Oscar had his chance early in the season but lando was the one that scored more points early on. I have nothing against Oscar but McLaren need to pull their thumbs out and decide who is their number 1.
Let them race, let's give up on the WDC, give up race wins and risk a for-sure 1-2, but let's let them race.
This team, again, show the car belongs to the top, they are not.
Except in this race it didn't even help them for the constructors!!! Piastri overtaking Norris cost them P1 and P2 at the time and the subsequent battle between them made them over attack the tires and make poor strategic decisions. The result is far fewer points for them as a team than they would have gotten with a managed 1-2. I do not understand why they are doing this. It doesn't help them in the driver's OR constructors' championship.
Piastri not getting the win is not Piastri's fault. Putting on the fact that a racer raced at the start, as some people have, is daft. He raced as he was allowed to and mugged Lando.
Who blamed Piastri? He *is* a racer. That's why the team needs to step in. At the very least, they need to have a rule like "you're free to race into turn one but after we maintain order for the first few laps." Otherwise they're GOING to throw away points it is not a question of "if" anymore.
Except in this race it didn't even help them for the constructors!!! Piastri overtaking Norris cost them P1 and P2 at the time and the subsequent battle between them made them over attack the tires and make poor strategic decisions. The result is far fewer points for them as a team than they would have gotten with a managed 1-2. I do not understand why they are doing this. It doesn't help them in the driver's OR constructors' championship.
Piastri not getting the win is not Piastri's fault. Putting on the fact that a racer raced at the start, as some people have, is daft. He raced as he was allowed to and mugged Lando.
Who blamed Piastri? He *is* a racer. That's why the team needs to step in. At the very least, they need to have a rule like "you're free to race into turn one but after we maintain order for the first few laps." Otherwise they're GOING to throw away points it is not a question of "if" anymore.
As I said, "as some people have", the sentence didn't say "as you had".
Norris is not championship material I'm afraid. I don't see the same drive and hunger to capitalise on all the chances he's been given. Frankly, he should be leading the WDC today - that's five race wins squandered now, how many more chances does he need? When the car is not as dominant as it was in Zandvoort, he fails to deliver time and time again.
Ha ha ha...so the car was mighty in Zandvoort and thia ia the reason Lando won by 23 seconds and made the fastest lap in the last lap. Remind me wher did Oscar finished that race?! Ooo...wait, only Lando's car was mighty.
Sometimes I read on this forum such "interesting" posts that I think was better when McLaren was eliminated with both cars in Q1.
I am a McLaren fan since 1992, I saw a lot of events during this time, with ups and downs, chearing for Senna, Hakkinen or Hamilton WDC or suffering for periods with painful results.
But you have to admit that, beside a mighty second stint from Leclerc and Ferrari strategy, today victory was "facilitated" by the turn 4 attack of Oscar on Lando. Specially that was not a clean overtake and Lando had to heavy brake and lost P2 to Charles.
For the moment McLaren looks good on WCC but if they want to avoid a toxic relationship between the two drivers, a possible collision between them one time or to have a chance on WDC this "papaya rules" (red)bull'sh1t should stop.
The point being made is that you need to be able to do it all the time. Pointing to one good race, as many did last week, throwing around the word "Dominant" was premature beyond belief and I made this point very clearly. One win is not dominant. In fact it is highly belated. Wait for the next few races to see if he is the dominant driver in the championship. And guess what, mugged again.
The "Number 1" and "Dominant" driver is currently losing 5-4 since Miami to Oscar. Undoubtedly he's the faster driver, but there are parts of his game that the recent rookie had since day 1 that Lando just doesn't.
Honestly, I'm so frustrated with Lando. It was the same last year, except then it didn't matter. He's got time. He can afford mistakes.
it's year 7 for f*cks sake. He shouldn't be getting beaten by Oscar, period.
So you are saying that Russell beating Hamilton is not acceptable? A driver with only 2 wins to be faster, smarter (Spa strategy) or better in race trim than a 7 times world champion is not normal?
Sainz coming from Renault, McLaren, and to be faster than Leclerc, to.put in scene a masterpiece like Singapore 2023 etc is not acceptable?
I was expecting more from you.
Oacar is an excellent driver, he has some room to improve and is a future World Champion material (because was not choosed by McLaren for nothing), but what was obvious today McLaren is focusing only for WCC. With only 8 points remaining and considering that are 2 drivers fighting Max, the chances are on their side.
But not to forget what happened in 2007, when Alonso was fighting Hamilton and the WDC was won by Kimi. (another example when, based on your logic, was not acceptable a double world champion to be beaten by a rookie).
In conclusion, Ferrari maximize today everything they had and served a lesson to McLaren. But is there someone at McLaren to learn this lesson???
I really do wonder what McLaren are up to with the way their managing Lando and Oscar. In Hungary it was the right thing to reverse Lando and Oscar, Oscar was leading and was put out of position by the team, who never really explained properly why they did it to Lando and then they emotionally bullied the guy via his race engineer. I was expecting them to take a family member hostage at one point or get on the radio with "Lando, we have a box of kittens here, don't make me do it". Stella should have stepped up, got on the radio and said "Lando, we pitted you first to cover Lewis. Oscar would still be leading if that was not the case, this was a team decision and we are informing you, as a team order, to let Oscar back through. I apologise for not being as clear as we should have been" .. End of situation. Management is doing things right, Leadership is doing the right things. Horner, Wolff etc etc would have got straight on the radio and nipped it in the bud. That whole exchange, as someone who led people as a military officer was utterly appalling and shameful leadership, let alone management. We then had Lando being told, for the world to hear, that you are going to need Oscars help in the future. Basically, you cant win without him. Some vote of confidence. After the race Zack stood up and said that they supported Lando's bid for the drivers title .. straight after you had lost him seven points in the chase for it to no loss for the team no matter who finished in front of who.
Lando has been with that team for six years, when they were winning nothing, and lapping at the back, Red Bull came calling more tha once when they were winning races for fun, he stayed loyal and signed contract after contract. He has two wins to Oscars one. He has outscored, outqualified and outraced Oscar over last season and this season, and it's not exactly close either. If you are not going to support that driver, now we are in the last third of the season when he has a chance of a drivers title then when are you going to do it ?? .. I can see Stella getting to Qatar and saying "Now Oscar will support Lando". McLaren seem far more keen on appearing fair to Oscar than supporting Lando going for the WDC. Stella is clearly fantastic technically but he couldn't hit the ground if he threw himself at it when it comes to man management in my book.
And I know that this is just Oscars second year, and as much as I admire the guys talent, and I do as he is extremely talented, if he was the next Max or Lewis we would have seen it by now. He went off under zero pressure in Hungary, lost two seconds and arguably a win at Spa by almost sending a mechanic into the next dimension and hasn't looked like winning in the style of Lando at Zaanvoort, or anything close to it, anywhere. His favourite thing seems to be fighting his team mate above anyone else, Austria lap one springs to mind. Today he basically put a do or die move on that required his team mate to either give way or collide. And that let LeClerc into second, it benefitted him but hurt the team by putting Lando in third and possibly ultimately cost him the race. With Lando, or Oscar in second McLaren control that race. That move let LeClerc in the door for the win. I thought Lando dealt with it brilliantly, he didn't do what he did before after the race and get emotional or play the victim. He praised Oscar, laughed it off and looked pretty unfazed but it's clear that Oscar is only out for Oscar, and that's fair enough. The cool down room was chilly to say the least. Lando needs to do the same now, he seems far more mentally strong since we came back from the summer break. Next time Oscar sticks his nose up the inside slam the door shut hard in the same style that Oscar seemed happy to do today. If they both go off then you'll know for next time. And it was a ballsy move from Oscar to be fair, a brave move, but ultimately a stupid one as it gave away the chance for the team to control the pace.
McLaren need to state what they are doing. Either support Lando or not. State it clearly, or not, instead of this wishy washy "Papaya Rules" drivel. Right now you have the Mclaren driver with the only realistic chance of the drivers title not being supported in that, a team who are more interested in apparently being seen as fair rather than realistic, and a situation where the leading scoring driver in the team can be forgiven for wondering if McLaren genuinely want him to win the drivers title.
McLaren need to get a grip on that sharpish one way or the other.
